What is so wrong about gay romance being in Star Wars? — Page 3

Thank you for your lovely responses. Excellent discussion.

Handman said:

Thank you for your lovely responses. Excellent discussion.

You’re not helping yourself. I’m willing to entertain an actual discussion with you but this post isn’t doing anything to quell my suspicions that you don’t really have much in the way of a legitimate argument.

Handman said:

Thank you for your lovely responses. Excellent discussion.

Perhaps you’d like to respond to Lando?

moviefreakedmind said:

Handman said:

I just see no reason for it in Star Wars. It’s pandering.

That’s just what a homophobe would say!!!

That’s a joke? Ha-ha?

Since you asked.

DominicCobb said:
I know it’s name calling but it’s kind of true. How the actual fuck is a gay relationship pandering?

Most gay characters I have seen simply say “Look at me, I’m gay, remember that?” and don’t have much character beyond that. I would like that to not happen in Star Wars, and I doubt if they wanted to focus on gay relationships that we would get much more than that.

TFA already set up two male characters with a strong bond. There’s nothing to say that they can’t be homo or bi sexual and end up in a relationship. Assuming they’re heterosexual is just heteronormativity which is a type of homophobia.

I assume people are asexual until shown otherwise. I’d prefer not seeing any sexual relations at all in a fantasy-adventure. It’s mostly irrelevant. Your last sentence is crazy, though. Assuming someone is heterosexual is homophobic? The vast majority of people are heterosexual, I don’t think it’s that big a leap to assume.

And if you were gay, do you think a gay relationship in Star Wars would feel like pandering? No, in fact, after 7 gayless episodes (C-3PO and Obi-Wan ambiguity not withstanding) it would feel like Star Wars is finally showing a relationship that you could relate to.

You assume that gay people cannot relate to relationships that are not gay. That’s as absurd as saying I can’t relate to Lando because he’s black.

moviefreakedmind said:

DominicCobb said:

Handman said:

Thank you for your lovely responses. Excellent discussion.

You’re not helping yourself. I’m willing to entertain an actual discussion with you but this post isn’t doing anything to quell my suspicions that you don’t really have much in the way of a legitimate argument.

In his defense, it sounded like your only real argument was that we have yet to see it in a Star Wars film, so let’s include it.

Exactly.

Handman said:

You assume that gay people cannot relate to relationships that are not gay. That’s as absurd as saying I can’t relate to Lando because he’s black.

No one said any of those things.

TV’s Frink said:

Handman said:

You assume that gay people cannot relate to relationships that are not gay. That’s as absurd as saying I can’t relate to Lando because he’s black.

No one said any of those things.

after 7 gayless episodes… it would feel like Star Wars is finally showing a relationship that you could relate to.

.

I should let Dom respond, but I think you misunderstand his point.

For certain no one said the second thing.

Handman said:

Since you asked.

DominicCobb said:
I know it’s name calling but it’s kind of true. How the actual fuck is a gay relationship pandering?

Most gay characters I have seen simply say “Look at me, I’m gay, remember that?” and don’t have much character beyond that. I would like that to not happen in Star Wars, and I doubt if they wanted to focus on gay relationships that we would get much more than that.

If it’s a Finn/Poe relationship that wouldn’t be an issue. Clearly those characters have more going on than just their sexuality.

TFA already set up two male characters with a strong bond. There’s nothing to say that they can’t be homo or bi sexual and end up in a relationship. Assuming they’re heterosexual is just heteronormativity which is a type of homophobia.

I assume people are asexual until shown otherwise. I’d prefer not seeing any sexual relations at all in a fantasy-adventure. It’s mostly irrelevant.

Fair enough, but Star Wars is a franchise with a history of romantic relationships. It’s fair to assume we’ll see more. Personally, I don’t have an issue with it. A lot of great fantasy-adventure stories have an element of romance.

Your last sentence is crazy, though. Assuming someone is heterosexual is homophobic? The vast majority of people are heterosexual, I don’t think it’s that big a leap to assume.

It’s not about assuming someone is heterosexual, it’s about assuming everyone is heterosexual. I didnt word it very well. It’s okay to assume Finn and Poe are straight, but to say that they can’t be homo or bi because of that initial assumption is preposterous (not saying you said this at all, I’ve just read it elsewhere).

And if you were gay, do you think a gay relationship in Star Wars would feel like pandering? No, in fact, after 7 gayless episodes (C-3PO and Obi-Wan ambiguity not withstanding) it would feel like Star Wars is finally showing a relationship that you could relate to.

You assume that gay people cannot relate to relationships that are not gay. That’s as absurd as saying I can’t relate to Lando because he’s black.

I’m not saying that. I just think Star Wars should be more inclusive. The fact that in the entire galaxy, across the span of 7 films, there’s is not one gay character or relationship feels very exclusionary. Right now, in terms of sexuality, Star Wars portrays a rather narrow view.

Less “relate to” and more “reflect more closely the world you know and your experiences.” It’s more a matter of representation.

Handman said:

moviefreakedmind said:

DominicCobb said:

Handman said:

Thank you for your lovely responses. Excellent discussion.

You’re not helping yourself. I’m willing to entertain an actual discussion with you but this post isn’t doing anything to quell my suspicions that you don’t really have much in the way of a legitimate argument.

In his defense, it sounded like your only real argument was that we have yet to see it in a Star Wars film, so let’s include it.

Exactly.

Nope it’s just there’s no reason not to. If Episode VIII is going to have a romantic relationship (which is likely if you look at the structure of the Star Wars trilogies and really second acts in general), it would realistically be between characters we already know, preferably two of the main three new leads (Rey, Finn, and Poe). Many would look at the possibilities from a traditional, Hollywood perspective (Rey/Finn or Rey/Poe?). But a more interesting perspective, one that reflected the real life landscape of human sexuality, would also consider Finn/Poe. With Rey off doing Jedi stuff and Finn and Poe already having some strong chemistry, to me, it just makes sense (not to mention the fact that we may finally get a female lead that doesn’t have to be in a romantic relationship).

I should let Dom respond, but I think you misunderstand his point.

For certain no one said the second thing.

I was using the same logic for the second thing. If gay people cannot relate to straight people, then why should non-black people be able to relate to black people?

If it’s a Finn/Poe relationship that wouldn’t be an issue. Clearly those characters have more going on than just their sexuality.

That is true, but I don’t think homosexuality should be a main theme for a Star Wars film. There are plenty of other films for that. If they are, that’s fine, but I don’t want to be hit over the head with it if that’s the case.

I just think Star Wars should be more inclusive.

I’d rather they focus on good characters than making sure everyone feels included. There are way too many different kinds of people, it’s simply unfeasible to achieve, because if it’s not one thing, it’ll be another.

Handman said:

I should let Dom respond, but I think you misunderstand his point.

For certain no one said the second thing.

I was using the same logic for the second thing. If gay people cannot relate to straight people, then why should non-black people be able to relate to black people?

That’s not what he said. Read his reply.

TV’s Frink said:

Handman said:

I should let Dom respond, but I think you misunderstand his point.

For certain no one said the second thing.

I was using the same logic for the second thing. If gay people cannot relate to straight people, then why should non-black people be able to relate to black people?

That’s not what he said. Read his reply.

He edited that in after I posted. I’ll read it now.

I have a friend a lot like you, DominicCobb, and I understand this perspective, but I simply don’t see it the same way. I don’t think there’s much point in discussing it on and on, I’ve been over this topic with other people for over three continuous weeks, so I’m not really up to doing that again. If it happens, fine, I just hope it’s done well, which is my main concern. Rarely have I seen it done well other than for good press.

Handman said:

If it’s a Finn/Poe relationship that wouldn’t be an issue. Clearly those characters have more going on than just their sexuality.

That is true, but I don’t think homosexuality should be a main theme for a Star Wars film. There are plenty of other films for that. If they are, that’s fine, but I don’t want to be hit over the head with it if that’s the case.

Would you mind “being hit over the head” with it if it were heterosexuality?

I just think Star Wars should be more inclusive.

I’d rather they focus on good characters than making sure everyone feels included. There are way too many different kinds of people, it’s simply unfeasible to achieve, because if it’s not one thing, it’ll be another.

I’m not asking for them to go out of their way to include all types of people (but the more, the better). But as I said these are good characters and giving them a relationship is not going to ruin that. If anything, it’ll only make them more interesting.

And, again as I said, they wouldn’t be bending over backwards for it. In fact, if Rey is separate from Finn and Poe throughout the majority of the movie, Finn/Poe would actually be the easiest romantic relationship for them to show and the one that would make the most narrative sense.

DominicCobb said:

Handman said:

If it’s a Finn/Poe relationship that wouldn’t be an issue. Clearly those characters have more going on than just their sexuality.

That is true, but I don’t think homosexuality should be a main theme for a Star Wars film. There are plenty of other films for that. If they are, that’s fine, but I don’t want to be hit over the head with it if that’s the case.

Would you mind “being hit over the head” with it if it were heterosexuality?

Yes, if it were told to me over and over again as if I couldn’t understand what was happening.

Handman said:

I have a friend a lot like you, DominicCobb, and I understand this perspective, but I simply don’t see it the same way. I don’t think there’s much point in discussing it on and on, I’ve been over this topic with other people for over three continuous weeks, so I’m not really up to doing that again. If it happens, fine, I just hope it’s done well, which is my main concern. Rarely have I seen it done well other than for good press.

I understand worrying that it wouldn’t be done well, but then again you could worry that a lot of things wouldn’t be done well. At the end of the day you have to put your faith in the filmmakers.

I think the fact that you don’t see it from that perspective is probably because you’ve been conditioned to traditional male/female pairings. Not your fault, but Hollywood’s near exclusivity to heterosexual relationships has made it seem like that is what’s normal, and other types of relationships are less so. I think if there were more homosexual relationships in media you’d be more inclined to take my perspective.

In fairness, because there are less homosexual relationships in media there are less examples of homosexual relationships done subtlety and believably. But that doesn’t mean they aren’t possible.

I would not want to see a homosexual relationship on screen in Star Wars at least partly because it would be controversial (whether or not you think it should be). I don’t think Star Wars movies should include anything that is hugely controversal in the real world, regardless of whether it’s something I support or not. I want Star Wars to be a fun escape from reality, not a reminder of it.

Let’s say the new Star Wars movie established that the Jedi forbid transgender operations (far-fetched, I know, but it’s the principle that counts). While many people, including myself, think that changing one’s sex is wrong, I would just as disappointed that it was included as I would be if one of the characters changed genders, since it’s a controversial issue in the real world.

So, whether or not you think that gay marriage and whatnot should be controversal, the truth is that it is, and I do not want any controversial issues from the real world appearing in a movie that is supposed to be an escape from reality.

RicOlie_2 said:

I would not want to see a homosexual relationship on screen in Star Wars at least partly because it would be controversial (whether or not you think it should be). I don’t think Star Wars movies should include anything that is hugely controversial in the real world, regardless of whether it’s something I support or not. I want Star Wars to be a fun escape from reality, not a reminder of it.

Let’s say the new Star Wars movie established that the Jedi forbid transgender operations (far-fetched, I know, but it’s the principle that counts). While many people, including myself, think that changing one’s sex is wrong, I would just as disappointed that it was included as I would be if one of the characters changed genders, since it’s a controversial issue in the real world.

So, whether or not you think that gay marriage and whatnot should be controversial, the truth is that it is, and I do not want any controversial issues from the real world appearing in a movie that is supposed to be an escape from reality.

You put it so well.

I’m not gay or transgender but I can guarantee you those who are would hate to see their lifestyles and struggles deemed “too controversial” to be depicted in escapist fantasy.

You know what helps these things to he less controversial? Normalization and representation. Treating people not as taboo subjects to be avoided in polite conversation but as human beings worthy of the same respect and recognition as straight white guy you and me. 40 years ago people would have raised a stink about John Boyega being the lead in an escapist blockbuster film–hell, people raised a stink JUST LAST YEAR–but thanks to Hollywood giving actors like Will Smith and Morgan Freeman a chance Boyega’s casting isn’t controversial, or not nearly as much as it might have been.

Avoiding “controversial” subjects in mainstream entertainment only continues to ostracized the oppressed and maintain the status quo. With The Force Awakens, Star Wars is now a relatively progressive franchise for the first time in its existence (even more so than Star Trek) and it would be great to see it keep going down this path with sensitivity and care.