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The Godfather Saga - HD Restoration (Released) — Page 11

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Croweyes1121 said:

As I said, I could be wrong. I’m not saying it won’t look better. I’m just questioning how much better it will look after you re-encode it to hardcode subs and upscale the HBO footage. If a 1080i straight rip of the HBO version surfaced, I’d happily replace the 720p copy I have. But that would be a direct rip from the source. Again, yours may look incredible and prove me wrong…and I’ll be happy to be wrong if that’s the case. 😃

Like I said, go do a cap comparison between the 720p and the 1080p. Stop speculating. You act like every single shot of both films has subtitles.

JayArgonaut said:

digitalfreaknyc said:
What are you blabbering about? Someone else can try to cap it in 1080i like I did but if their cable company re-encodes (like almost all do), it will look just like mine does

DFNYC, thanks for your efforts over the years and your attempt to capture this for us.

Maybe they did it using DVB-S?

I know nothing about DVB-S, unfortunately.
Like I said: these guys seem to be full of crap. Why would they be looking for a “proper” 1080i, considering their 720p had to be sourced from one.

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I’m not acting like every shot has subtitles at all. I’m simply saying that you will have to re-encode the blu. And you will have to upscale the HBO footage. That in and of itself WILL lesson quality, however slightly. For the third time, I’ll be THRILLED to be proven wrong about this. And I’m not the one doing all the work, so more power to you, my friend. 😃

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digitalfreaknyc said:
I know nothing about DVB-S, unfortunately.
Like I said: these guys seem to be full of crap. Why would they be looking for a “proper” 1080i, considering their 720p had to be sourced from one.

Very likely because it’s someone else’s handiwork that they’re passing off as their own.

“Logic is the battlefield of adulthood.”

  • Howard Berk
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Croweyes1121 said:

I’m not acting like every shot has subtitles at all. I’m simply saying that you will have to re-encode the blu. And you will have to upscale the HBO footage. That in and of itself WILL lesson quality, however slightly. For the third time, I’ll be THRILLED to be proven wrong about this. And I’m not the one doing all the work, so more power to you, my friend. 😃

Dude. VRD doesn’t re-encode. I don’t know why you keep going on about this

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Because…when you add subs, you will have to re-encode. When you upscale, you will have to re-encode. When you combine a non-upscaled BD piece with an upscaled HBO piece for a transition, you will have to re-encode. And when you do any of those things, quality will be reduced. I actually have done quite a lot of video editing. I’m not just pulling this stuff out of nowhere. And I’m certainly not trying to argue with you, but those are just facts. Will there be sections that won’t go down in quality? Yes. And I’ve not said otherwise. I’ve only stated - and I’ll do so again - that if some portions are going to look somewhat better and others are going to look somewhat worse, then I personally don’t see the point of doing what you’re suggesting. But I’m out of this discussion. I’m obviously irritating you, which is not my intent at all. Trust me, I SUPPORT your efforts if they yield results. Really, I do. I hope I’ve proven that up to now. As I said, make this thing better. I’ll be grateful to see what you can do, as will everyone here. 😃

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Your first record of AMC HD Saga have excellent quality but now Epic looks really bad and 720p release (14.5GB) looks proper (colors, grain).

Why your first AMC record look proper and now Epic looks unwatchable…

So we need someone who can make or have proper record and send it to you.
Problem solved.

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marin888 said:

Your first record of AMC HD Saga have excellent quality but now Epic looks really bad and 720p release (14.5GB) looks proper (colors, grain).

Why your first AMC record look proper and now Epic looks unwatchable…

So we need someone who can make or have proper record and send it to you.
Problem solved.

OK let’s get real: my version of Epic doesn’t look “really bad.” You’re comparing screencaps which is ALWAYS a dangerous thing to do. Had I released my 45GB file, you’d all be perfectly fine with it. Trust me. However, since we have a direct comparison to something that’s not been re-compressed, you’re noticing differences. However, I’d be perfectly fine watching my recording until the end of days, if there were no other alternative. And I’d be none the wiser.

In fact, I’ll bet you take that AMC recording and compare screencaps to the HBO and it will have all the same problems.

There’s nothing I can do about cable systems re-encoding their signals when they send them out. There’s only ONE system that doesn’t do that. It’s FIOS. And, unfortunately, I can’t get it in my apartment building.

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You definitely have problems with noise reduction & reddish color.
There is no grain and untouched ts file definitely must have them.
Check your settings for recording. But why reddish color?

AMC HD Rip 720p & BD 1080i
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/161879
720p & BD 1080i - Picture 2
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/161575/picture:1

And here is comparison for noise reduction, it have same effect like you have.
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/151114

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marin888 said:

You definitely have problems with noise reduction & reddish color.
There is no grain and untouched ts file definitely must have them.
Check your settings for recording. But why reddish color?

AMC HD Rip 720p & BD 1080i
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/161879
720p & BD 1080i - Picture 2
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/161575/picture:1

And here is comparison for noise reduction, it have same effect like you have.
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/151114

Again, that’s what it looks like on my TV. Has nothing to do with the way it’s being encoded.

I use the default settings on the Hauppauge when I encode. Does anyone else have it and have this problem?

I don’t know what you’re showing me in your comparison.

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First screen & 2nd in my comparison
MPEG-TS (AVC) removing grain - MPEG-TS (MPEG-2) keep grain
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/151114
Settings in recording or something else?

1080i HDTV MPEG2 DD2.0-CtrlHD
http://www.imagebam.com/image/be6b57368563075
http://www.imagebam.com/image/ee2aa5368562954

Why CtrlHD Team not use new codec AVC, or MPEG2 keep grain?
In which codecs is your records?

We need someone here who can explain these things.

What about to start new topic for improving HDTV recordings, tips & unexpected things?
But I need to leave it to someone else.

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marin888 said:

First screen & 2nd in my comparison
MPEG-TS (AVC) removing grain - MPEG-TS (MPEG-2) keep grain
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/151114
Settings in recording or something else?

1080i HDTV MPEG2 DD2.0-CtrlHD
http://www.imagebam.com/image/be6b57368563075
http://www.imagebam.com/image/ee2aa5368562954

Why CtrlHD Team not use new codec AVC, or MPEG2 keep grain?
In which codecs is your records?

We need someone here who can explain these things.

What about to start new topic for improving HDTV recordings, tips & unexpected things?
But I need to leave it to someone else.

The recording that I’m displaying is exactly like what I’m receiving. I don’t think you’re understanding that, here in the US, ALL cable companies receive the signal from the channel. In this case, HBO sends Time Warner Cable the signal. Time Warner Cable THEN re-encodes the signal and sends it to people’s homes. As we all know, encoding is not kind to grain or detail and that’s why you get loss of both because we use MPEG-2, which is out-dated but they refuse to make a drastic change.

However, I’m sure that HBO GO is MPEG-4/AVC and it looks the same as what I just showed you.

So this is all moot. Unless someone can encode from the original signal which, here in the US, can only happen from FIOS, the 720p will have to do, unfortunately. But, again, the 1080i looks fine, as does the AMC. And no one complained when I first did that. We just didn’t have an uncompressed/raw file to compare it to. That was my point in showing the comparison.

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marin888 said:

Upscaling 720p release from 14.5GB to 2xBD25 is really bad solution.

And for 1080i, details is completely removed, blurry, looks like upscaled old DVD or LD.
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/161575/picture:2

Let’s wait March for rebroadcast & I hope someone will make proper record and send it to you.
http://www.hbo.com/schedule?focusId=623569&productIds=392254
So there is no need to rush to complete this project.

No offense but you really don’t know what you’re talking about.
You already said that the AMC recording has “excellent” PQ when it looks pretty much the same as the HBO.
Now you’re saying it’s an upscaled DVD/Laserdisc? That’s nuts. It looks a HELLUVA lot better than that.
And I never said i was going to re-encode the entire release.
Forget it. It’s not worth arguing with you guys.

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FYI speaking of cable companies re-encoding. DirecTV transmits in mpeg-4 on the HD channels and will do 1080p on some.

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marin888 said:

Which one you prefer?
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/161946
And you don’t see here that details is completely removed, blurry looks?
This is heavily DNR’ed.
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/161575/picture:2

Then why did you call the AMC encoding “excellent” when it has the same issues?
How many times do I have to say that, had I “released” my recording, you’d be praising it instead of trashing it right now. The only reason you have a problem with it is because you have the 720p to compare it to.
Please stop responding. You’re embarrassing yourself at this point.

suntech said:

FYI speaking of cable companies re-encoding. DirecTV transmits in mpeg-4 on the HD channels and will do 1080p on some.

They do. However, I’ve known them to be far worse than digital cable. If it rains or snows, your picture can get all sorts of fucked up. At least digital cable is reliable. It’s either there or it’s not.

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Okay, come on, guys. PM each other if you want to slug it out over what capture looks better.

I’m here because I love these films and am incredibly excited that they were finally shown this way in HD. I see no benefit in going back and forth on these points any more aside to wish digitalfreaknyc the absolute best of luck on his proposed upgrade of the 720p rip / BD theatrical footage, which is why I removed myself from the in-the-weeds part of this discussion. What he’s attempting will either prove a substantive upgrade over what’s currently out there or it won’t. I, for one, truly hope that it does. All the bickering here only distracts him from accomplishing that admirable goal. A broadcast of this historical relevance and artistic quality should be preserved in the highest quality possible. Until he’s done with his efforts, though, we have a from-the-source 720p rip of this edit that looks pretty great, which is more than any of us thought we’d have. Let’s keep our eyes on the ball, huh?

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I only say what it is. And I don’t want argue with anyone here.
You have problem with capture device, signal etc… You can’t make proper records.
It’s not your fault it’s just damn new tech when unexpected things happens.

Tip for you.
If you want to have proper HDTV record for something, ask - make request and I hope someone can help you.

I hope someone will proper record it from rebroadcast and give it to you,
or if I get it you will get it too.

Cheers!

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Croweyes1121 said:

Okay, come on, guys. PM each other if you want to slug it out over what capture looks better.

I’m here because I love these films and am incredibly excited that they were finally shown this way in HD. I see no benefit in going back and forth on these points any more aside to wish digitalfreaknyc the absolute best of luck on his proposed upgrade of the 720p rip / BD theatrical footage, which is why I removed myself from the in-the-weeds part of this discussion. What he’s attempting will either prove a substantive upgrade over what’s currently out there or it won’t. I, for one, truly hope that it does. All the bickering here only distracts him from accomplishing that admirable goal. A broadcast of this historical relevance and artistic quality should be preserved in the highest quality possible. Until he’s done with his efforts, though, we have a from-the-source 720p rip of this edit that looks pretty great, which is more than any of us thought we’d have. Let’s keep our eyes on the ball, huh?

There isn’t any question that the 720p direct capture is better. I’ve NEVER disputed that. However, I keep getting berated by Marin about my version not being good enough.

Just in case a language barrier has made things unclear, let me state this again:

THERE’S NOTHING I CAN DO.

And in case you didn’t get that the first time…let me say it again:

THERE IS NOTHING I CAN DO.

I have NEVER seen cable show grain. Ever. On any channel. In my entire life.

Perhaps someone out there is lucky enough to have cable that looks like that but mine has never. I’m going to see if I can get a new box this week but I don’t have the disposable income to pay for the newest box that may not yield better results at all.

As I have said oVer…and OVER…cable companies re-encode the signal at their discretion. How high (or low) that bitrate is can vary.

But the bottom line is that THERE IS NOTHING I CAN DO ABOUT IT.

Did I make that clear enough?

And since you haven’t seen it in motion, here’s a short clip from my version. If you can watch THAT and tell me there’s a major problem with it, then you’re nuts, IMHO.

https://mega.nz/#!CtsxCQpC!a9ijyAKB1Tu20eUFNG768-PB0XpGTnUlDhILvR8Zy9Y

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Yes, you’re both clear.

The 720p looks better than the 1080i capture, because the former is from the source and the latter has been re-encoded by the cable company.

We all understand.

Can we please move on?

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digitalfreaknyc, I just wanted to say thanks for making me aware this cut even existed, let alone that it was going to air on HBO. I have it sitting on my DVR and waiting for me. Thanks.

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marin888 said:

Please sample from Kay-Michael scene. I need to check it. 😄
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/161575/picture:2

I don’t want to hear from you again.

https://mega.nz/#!3xVSBZzK!uwCI0_0RxABlkOCzPQHRkD2_cpaoSPYNJ7qMWrRgOnM

daileyxplanet said:

digitalfreaknyc, I just wanted to say thanks for making me aware this cut even existed, let alone that it was going to air on HBO. I have it sitting on my DVR and waiting for me. Thanks.

You’re very, very welcome. I hope you enjoy!