Worst of Wookiepedia — Page 5

DuracellEnergizer said:

Why would anyone feel any love or dedication to a universe that kills off most of your favourite characters?

You must not have heard about Game of Thrones 😃

DuracellEnergizer said:

Tyrphanax said:

Can you believe people wrote petitions and “Gave up on Star Wars” because they wiped out a universe where “Fat Dancer” is basically Luke’s best friend and the three-eyed son of Palpatine takes over the Empire? Ugh. I’m so glad it’s all gone.

Yeah, I’ll never understand the EU fantards. The real kicker is that most of them are fans of Mara Jade and the Solo kids, but all but one of those characters were all dead by the time the EU drew to a close. Why would anyone feel any love or dedication to a universe that kills off most of your favourite characters?

Most of EU is crap, but not all EU is bad. Of course, the most stupid EU is the most popular one coming from books/comics, i.e. Solo’s kids stuff, Luke’s kid stuff, Mara Jade stuff, Thrawn stuff, Yuuzhan Vong crap, cloned Emperor crap, etc.

The best EU comes from video games: DF series, KOTOR, SWTOR.

DuracellEnergizer said:

Mara Jade stuff, Thrawn stuff

… my eyes glazed over.

You like that stuff? Are you are one of them “EU fantards” as you yourself refer to them?

I cannot comment on Mara Jade/Thrawn Trilogy since I haven’t read the respective source material, but having SWTOR sitting next to the giants of KOTOR I & II is quite a travesty too. It spits on everything KOTOR II achieved.

Tobar said:

You mean the non-ending where the old woman explains everything that was supposed to happen before they ran out of budget?

I don’t think budget was an issue. Lucasfilm set ridiculous milestones/deadlines/weird last minute changes for the game’s completion. That studio, Obsidian, still showed heart and care into their story/characters. Besides, years later of fan dedication did that game get a majority of its content restored. However, I understand many still dislike the ending for still feeling rushed. Still, KOTOR II’s ending felt similar to ESB, which I adored. An open and uncertain ending.

Lucasfilm at the time was great with their gaming success as they were with their films. Not well, obviously.

TavorX said:

but having SWTOR sitting next to the giants of KOTOR I & II is quite a travesty too. It spits on everything KOTOR II achieved.

Don’t be silly. I wasn’t even having KOTOR2 sitting with the other three in the first place. KOTOR2, while having some nice moments, has to much ridiculous stuff in it (Nihilus, Sion, wound in the force, etc.) to be on the same level as KOTOR1, DF series and SWTOR.

Meh, I’d argue it offered one of the most compelling things for the Star Wars universe and lore. I don’t see how SWTOR did, especially since Revan is a complete joke in that game.

TavorX said:

Meh, I’d argue it offered one of the most compelling things for the Star Wars universe and lore. I don’t see how SWTOR did, especially since Revan is a complete joke in that game.

I don’t really care about Revan side story in SWTOR (and I agree that the side story related to him is super crap). All I care are individual storylines of main characters and the main Sith vs. Republic setting. That stuff is for me one of the best Star Wars experienced for far.

Especially I like the the two Sith and the Imperial Agent storylines. It is basically the first time I could properly experience being an Imperial/Sith in a game. I also like that things are not presented in the usual boring “imperials bad, republic good” black-white contrast. Things are much more practical, down-to-earth and grey.

imperialscum said:

TavorX said:

Meh, I’d argue it offered one of the most compelling things for the Star Wars universe and lore. I don’t see how SWTOR did, especially since Revan is a complete joke in that game.

I don’t really care about Revan side story in SWTOR (and I agree that the side story related to him is super crap). All I care are individual storylines of main characters and the main Sith vs. Republic setting. That stuff is for me one of the best Star Wars experienced for far.

Especially I like the the two Sith and the Imperial Agent storylines. It is basically the first time I could properly experience being an Imperial/Sith in a game. I also like that things are not presented in the usual boring “imperials bad, republic good” black-white contrast. Things are much more practical, down-to-earth and grey.

I will give you benefit of the doubt since I’ve heard raving praise for the Imperial Agent storyline.

Still, my curiosity is piqued when you praise SWTOR for giving you grey story material when KOTOR II also does this. It painted both Jedi and Sith in a “they’re just two extremist ideologies.” The game even will show consequence for being a jackass villian or a knight in shining armor hero and tries to encourage you to lean toward a middle ground. KOTOR II even makes you question your supposed guide/teacher throughout the game. Arguably, KOTOR I isn’t as compelling since it was mainly Jedi good, Sith bad, Republic good, Sith Empire bad routine. Doesn’t mean it’s bad by any means, as both titles aimed for different angles and achieved them very well imo.

TavorX said:

imperialscum said:

TavorX said:

Meh, I’d argue it offered one of the most compelling things for the Star Wars universe and lore. I don’t see how SWTOR did, especially since Revan is a complete joke in that game.

I don’t really care about Revan side story in SWTOR (and I agree that the side story related to him is super crap). All I care are individual storylines of main characters and the main Sith vs. Republic setting. That stuff is for me one of the best Star Wars experienced for far.

Especially I like the the two Sith and the Imperial Agent storylines. It is basically the first time I could properly experience being an Imperial/Sith in a game. I also like that things are not presented in the usual boring “imperials bad, republic good” black-white contrast. Things are much more practical, down-to-earth and grey.

I will give you benefit of the doubt since I’ve heard raving praise for the Imperial Agent storyline.

Still, my curiosity is piqued when you praise SWTOR for giving you grey story material when KOTOR II also does this. It painted both Jedi and Sith in a “they’re just two extremist ideologies.” The game even will show consequence for being a jackass villian or a knight in shining armor hero and tries to encourage you to lean toward a middle ground. KOTOR II even makes you question your supposed guide/teacher throughout the game. Arguably, KOTOR I isn’t as compelling since it was mainly Jedi good, Sith bad, Republic good, Sith Empire bad routine. Doesn’t mean it’s bad by any means, as both titles aimed for different angles and achieved them very well imo.

I don’t have problems with general KOTOR2 setting and I quite enjoyed it. I actually like how the Jedi Council is selfish and on the border of corruption and all other similar aspects on individual planet story level. The storyline was very interesting until things cleared up in the end and left me disappointed. For me it would be better to leave things unexplained and end the game with no conclusion than with a bad one. I guess that may be too “hipster” for general audience.

Still the main problems are the stupid aspects such as Nihilus and his powers, Sion and his powers, etc. There are some elements like this in SWTOR too but they can generally be ignored, as they either appear only in specific character story or they have no significant affect on the characters main story. The same cannot be said for KOTOR2 as the stupid stuff plays a key role in the storyline.

imperialscum said:

TavorX said:

imperialscum said:

TavorX said:

Meh, I’d argue it offered one of the most compelling things for the Star Wars universe and lore. I don’t see how SWTOR did, especially since Revan is a complete joke in that game.

I don’t really care about Revan side story in SWTOR (and I agree that the side story related to him is super crap). All I care are individual storylines of main characters and the main Sith vs. Republic setting. That stuff is for me one of the best Star Wars experienced for far.

Especially I like the the two Sith and the Imperial Agent storylines. It is basically the first time I could properly experience being an Imperial/Sith in a game. I also like that things are not presented in the usual boring “imperials bad, republic good” black-white contrast. Things are much more practical, down-to-earth and grey.

I will give you benefit of the doubt since I’ve heard raving praise for the Imperial Agent storyline.

Still, my curiosity is piqued when you praise SWTOR for giving you grey story material when KOTOR II also does this. It painted both Jedi and Sith in a “they’re just two extremist ideologies.” The game even will show consequence for being a jackass villian or a knight in shining armor hero and tries to encourage you to lean toward a middle ground. KOTOR II even makes you question your supposed guide/teacher throughout the game. Arguably, KOTOR I isn’t as compelling since it was mainly Jedi good, Sith bad, Republic good, Sith Empire bad routine. Doesn’t mean it’s bad by any means, as both titles aimed for different angles and achieved them very well imo.

I don’t have problems with general KOTOR2 setting and I quite enjoyed it. I actually like how the Jedi Council is selfish and on the border of corruption and all other similar aspects on individual planet story level. The storyline was very interesting until things cleared up in the end and left me disappointed. For me it would be better to leave things unexplained and end the game with no conclusion than with a bad one. I guess that may be too “hipster” for general audience.

I never made it to the end of KOTOR2 but I think I know in general what you mean, I felt the same way about Mass Effect 3. Except in that case I also felt like some of the earlier levels and character moments had been slashed and burned too, so I didn’t enjoy what led up to the ending as much as some other people did. After reading what you just wrote I don’t think I will bother with trying to finish KOTOR2 now.

Oh and while I think some parts of the AU are stupid I can’t really get too mad at it’s fans for being vocal, I mean they have spent a lot of money buying the books and other media and when there was money in it for him Lucas said it was cannon and then he turns around the first time he can make money by getting rid of it and says “No, it was stupid and you are stupid for liking it, it’s not cannon.” That has to be a real kick in the teeth. The closest I have come to that is JJ rebooting the Star Trek franchise, but even then at least he set it in an alternate universe and didn’t just say it never happened.

As with anything that is as big as the AU got I am sure there are a lot of stupid ideas in it, but I am also sure there are some really good one, and while I can understand why with so much of it out there any new film makers needed to wipe the slate clean instead of trying to keep track of it all, I can also understand why the fans wouldn’t like it and I will not get mad at them for being upset by this turn of events. Really I couldn’t see any group of fans reacting any other way to having something they loved ignored.

I know some Doctor Who fans who feel the same way about the new adventure novels, I may not agree, but I don’t blame them for after all these years being upset that the version of the story they grew up with will not be appearing onscreen after all. Also once a book or some other production is declared non cannon it is unlikely to get reprinted in the future, so it will become harder to find so that has got to suck for AU fans who are still trying to complete their collection of novels and comics or who just need a replacement copy for one the rabbit chewed on.

Bottom line is that I am glad the AU is not what they are following with these movies, but I can understand why the fans are upset.

DuracellEnergizer said:

Eh, I’m just not a big fan of the EU’s penchant for assigning almost every background character from the films some grandiose backstory as a secret Rebel or Imperial agent or whatever. Couldn’t the Ice Cream Maker Guy just be a regular joe with a regular job with a regular life? I’d much rather read that type of story than a dozen warmed-over “James Bond in Outer Space” rehashes.

Yeah, sometimes this is the sort of thing that has the most impact.

In Empire seeing all those normal people fleeing grabbing whatever they could get their hands on just because Lando announced that the Empire was taking control of the city really brought home just how evil and feared the Empire was on a personal level. It also made it easy to understand why Lando would make the deal with Vader, he just wants to protect his city full of normal people. If the cloud city becomes a hot bed for rebel spies, then the emotional impact is not as great and it means we are not seeing normal people fleeing, we are seeing rebels running and that means all the Empire is doing is what every government in history has always done. It doesn’t make it right, but it also doesn’t feel as evil.

Sometimes giving something a deeper meaning and making it more of a part of the plot can lesson it’s impact.

A good example in recent years is the game Mass Effect 3. That game had the moment that packed more of an emotional punch for me then any other moment in a game up to that point. When the game starts and the Reapers invade earth there is a child in a vent that Shepard can’t save and then at the end of the first level all Shepard can do is run from earth to get help as some of the best music I have ever heard in a video game plays and watch as the kid is killed by the Reapers. Then throughout the game Shepard keeps having nightmares where the boy is consumed in flame. The boy who’s name we never learn becomes an avatar for everyone Shepard can’t save in the war and it brings home the personal costs in a way that all the big explosions in the world can’t hope to match. Then it is all undone because in the end we find out the kid was really just some sort of grand puppet master who has been manipulating Shepard the whole type and the impact is lost. By trying to make the kid a bigger part of the story the writers took away our connection with him and ended up making the players care less about him and the story.

I think that is the mistake the writers of the AU made a lot of the time with background characters in Star Wars as well.