Another wall of text coming… sigh, I guess we should all try to be more concise.
your first reply - you ignored the crashing the Falcon bit, she didn’t outdo 2/3 Ties - Finn shot 2 down, yes? A bit of teamwork wouldn’t you say.
Well, I was only referring to the fact she was able to fly the Falcon good enough to not get destroyed by the Tie-Fighters, but anyway, it’s just part of the list of things she is able to do in the movie, not a real issue.
your second reply - holding a lightsabre and having a small knowledge of using the Force does not make her an ‘almost fully trained Jedi’.
Small knowledge? Luke, right after its brief training in TESB, doesn’t do mind tricks and can barely pull or throw stuff.
your third reply - ‘just that some of her skills are unexplained, so it feels like she always knows exactly what is needed when is needed’ - makes little sense.
That sometimes she doesn’t seem a true character fully enstablished, but more like a deus-ex-machina.
your fourth reply - ‘sudden knowledge of the Force’ - we’ve established she has knowledge of The Force beforehand - but not how to use it before the interrogation scene with Ren. During the interrogation she gains that knowledge from Ren himself, no?
And how can she gain such knowledge without using the Force? And yet she barely knows what it is, nevermind how to use it.
your fifth reply - you’re reaching a lot there in claiming being shot by a powerful bowcaster made him more powerful?
Not the would itself, but that hurting it could enrage him, drawing power from the dark side. That’s something which was suggested by another user (I don’t remeber who) and may actually be the only reason he uses this “emo practice” 😄
and Rey still only had the upper hand when she let the Force in.
Which, again, is something she does but never explained how or even hinted.
Yeah she still had to get a feel for using the lightsaber so she wouldn’t be winning the fight from the start but again if you know the first thing about swords then you know that going on the offense with one takes a lot more energy then being on the defense. In other words the whole time Ren is fighting ray he is wounded and he is not trying to kill her, but he is using more energy then she is when he is wounded so when she gets a feel for the weapon and she gets mad he is in trouble. Really he lost control for less then thirty seconds and that cost him the fight, even the best sword fighters can have this happen to them. Also again what proof do we see in the film that Ren is really good with a lightsaber, do we see him defeat anyone who is trained with a lightsaber in the movie, if the movie is supposed to stand on it’s own then what proof are we given that he knows what he is doing with a lightsaber. All we know is that he killed some other Jedi, but we are never told it is in a lightsaber fight.
You’re saying that he can fight with no problem for like 2 minutes and suddenly (and I repeat, suddenly) is powerless? Because he has no problem fighting Rey until she says “Wow, the Force” “letting the Force in”, and he’s suddenly defeated. Does it make sense to you? Am I just nitpicking?
Ren does knock down Finn and corners Rey, so he’s at least more skilled than them, which means the problem remains.Oh and as for Rey knowing about the gas and how the controls work, if she had to interact with those systems at all while doing the installs for that big guy on the planet then she would need to know how those systems worked. Now she may not remember every detail every second of her life because it was not the center of her existence but have you ever tried to make repairs or upgrades to a car or a computer without knowing the basics of how the systems work? It can’t be done because you will end up wrecking the thing.
This could be an explaination, but was never officially stated, if right. It wouldn’t have hurted, I guess 😄
Oh and here are just a few skills/ powers/ plot points that are in the original Star Wars that were not explained before they showed up in the theatrical cut and seem to come out of nowhere.
Obiwan being able to use the Jedi mind trick on the Stormtroopers.Obi-wan is a master in the Force. No problem here.
Leia being able to understands Chewbaca when she takes over for Han during the tie fighter attack.
Obi-wan is able to talk with him too in the Cantina. Considering we’re in an alien society, it’s pretty obvious some people need to learn alien languages, especially Leia who is a royal (and a spy).
Leia knowing how to help Chewbaca pilot the Falcon during said attack, to the point where she is even able to give damage reports.
She doesn’t pilot the Falcon herself (I don’t remember seeing her actually piloting it) and the Falcon’s panel is probably self-explaining for the damages. If not, I agree with you that it wasn’t explained.
Luke being able to use the force. He trains once for about thirty seconds with Obiwan.
It does learn the lesson that he can “let go to his feelings”. He’s still guided by Obi-wan during his “perfect shot” which, anyway, he said it could’ve actually be done even back on Tatooine (before learning about the Force). Still more believable than anything Rey does with zero training in TFA.
The hidden storage compartments on the Falcon. They come completely out of nowhere and are only there to advance the plot, their existence is never even hinted at before hand.
But it’s explained they used it for smuggling, it is actually explained and was in the Falcon all along.
Luke being able to out fly trained pilots and hit a target even a computer can’t. Remember the line about him being a great pilot was cut from the theatrical cut and it wasn’t until I heard the radio version that I knew the T-16 was a ship and not the type of speeder he was driving around. In the movie it is not made clear and we never hear about him piloting a ship before this, except for him saying “I am not such a bad pilot myself” but this seems like him bragging to Han and Obiwan rolls his eyes at this claim, so the movie it’s self up to that point leads us to believe that Luke knows nothing about piloting. The only way a new viewer to the film could know where Luke’s skills comes from is if they somehow knew about the deleted scenes, but that assumes they read a novel or youtube existed back in 77.
Wrong, I already said it: Obi-wan says Luke is quite a good pilot too, like his father.
Also it still doesn’t make much sense since Luke doesn’t seem to know how hyperspace works and the flashing lights on the Falcon’s controls seem to puzzle him and he needs Han to explain both of these things to him, and yet they must be some for of standardized controls that most ships use or how else do we explain Leia knowing how to use the Falcon later in the same movie? Unless there is some untold story that she and Han are keeping under wraps where she was on the ship before and Han taught her how to fly it. This is a massive plot hole that makes no sense to this day and makes bot Luke and Leia Marry Sues.
Well, no one said fighters and merchant ships work and control the same. About Leia, read what I said before.
Even if this one were an actual plot hole, it would be one actual plot hole (which is still bad) against I can’t even remember how many plot holes in TFA just for Rey.I have to wonder why the people attacking this movie for being worthless garbage are not doing the same to Star Wars. If Rey is a Marry Sue then Luke is one too and that means Star Wars has been a piece of worthless garbage that should be burnt from day one.
Who are you talking to? :\ I never said this movie is “worthless garbage”.
Nothing you said is ever officially stated in Star Wars if it stands on it’s own without any other movies. So if something not being officially stated as fact in bold typeface in TFA means that explanations based on lines and what we see there doesn’t count, then why do the explanations in Star Wars count.
When is it stated on screen before the stormtroopers scene that Jedi can could people’s minds like The Shadow? You are giving Rey crap for having having powers and knowing things that have not been spelled out before they were used in the movie, when Obiwan does the exact same thing in the first movie.
We are never shown Leia knowing what Chewie is saying, in fact she talks about him like he is a thing and throws around what could be considered a racist remark about his race. this would lead me to believe that she has never interacted with Wookies before, so why would she be able to understand him?
Also if Leia wasn’t helping to fly the ship then why did she need to go up there in the fist place and when is it stated in any of the movies that she knows anything about flying a ship, let alone enough to help in combat with a ship that controls are so far from the standard most people use that Luke, who is quite a good pilot, is confused by them. When is it even implied that she has any training that would help on a merchant ship in combat? If she isn’t up there to help fly it then all she was doing was getting in Chewbaca’s way, in the middle of a combat situation and why would Han or Chewie let her do that?
Vader has still been in combat and Luke has not, so again how is Luke able to out fly Vader for so long and how is he so in touch with the force after one training session? I mean Luke being to out fly Vader under the logic you are applying to Rey and Ren’s fight, would be like a crop duster pilot being to out fly a an ace when they were dueling in state of the art F22s. Why are you not calling Luke a Marry Sue.
Oh and about the fight think about what I have just explained as someone who has used a sword and has studied it’s use for some time and then tell me what part of this doesn’t make sense. Ren starts out winning but in the cold people burn through energy fast, he is using up his fast then Ray is, then you add in the fact that he is wounded, then he leaves himself open to an attack because he wants to try and tempt Rey to the dark side, he has not been in a real fight since Luke vanished so he isn’t expected Rey to lash out, he is expecting her to join him because he is just that full of himself, she then surprises him after letting the force in and gets in a couple of lucky hits that send him to the ground. He tired by this point and his body was giving out, if he had seen Rey as a threat he would have finished her off before he got tired, but he did and that did him in, it’s all there in the fight. You can tell he is getting tired because he keeps hitting himself so he can use the pain to keep himself awake and angry and full of energy.
Real life fights are nothing like the ones you see in video games, there are not any stats that determine who wins and loses every time, and in a sword fight if you misplace one foot in the middle of the fight, not matter how good you are you can find yourself in a world of hurt.
I have to say after the prequels this fight was a breath of fresh air, it seemed to be planed out by someone who knew how real fighting worked and knew that no matter who you are fighting if you don’t press your advantage when you have it, you risk losing the fight because it can turn on a dime.
Just because someone has been doing something longer does not mean they have some magic stat that causes them to win every fight regardless of any stupid mistakes they make. Ren made a bunch of mistakes, not the least of which was not being interested in killing Rey. In a real life or death fight if one person doesn’t treat it as a life or death fight they will at some point find themselves in trouble when facing someone who does view it as such.
Oh and if all it takes is the one training session to open Luke’s mind to the force, then could it be that Rey’s vision when she touched Luke’s lightsaber and then Ren using the force to try and get into her head had opened her mind to the force and thus she was able to do things on the same scale Luke was? I know this isn’t spelled out in the movie, but since when is everything spelled out in any Star Wars movie?
All that stuff you said explaining plot holes in Star Wars, was never stated on screen, we are left to figure it out ourselves from the context of how it shows up in the movie, so why is it not okay for TFA to do the exact same thing and to a lesser degree?
Oh right because this movie is new so bashing it is cool, but bash Star Wars or any of it’s characters is not. I don’t think anyone would even be complaining about Rey if she had been a guy, I think the only reason this question even comes up is because she is a girl and whenever there is a female lead in a modern movie it doesn’t take long for someone to accuse her of being a Marry Sue but I have never once in my life seen this same charge applied to a male character.
The fact is we see her make mistakes, she isn’t perfect, and everyone doesn’t treat her like she is the best thing in the history of everything and that alone puts her out of the running to be a Marry Sue without anything else needing to be explained. She is only a Marry Sue if you ignore all the times she makes a mistake or isn’t perfect at something, and once you are doing that then it is on you and not the writers, since they have no control over what you make up in your own head.
Honestly I think it has gotten to the point that if a female character does anything right in a movie and doesn’t spend the whole time crying while waiting for a male hero to save her she is called a Marry Sue.