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Post #896882

Author
DrCrowTStarwarsreborn
Parent topic
TFA: Why I don't think Rey is a Merry Sue
Link to post in topic
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/896882/action/topic#896882
Date created
14-Jan-2016, 3:59 PM

oojason said:

John Doom said:

oojason said:

I disagree with a lot of that JD - for one she hasn’t acquired more skills than Luke has (has she?)

She has, indeed:
-she has extensive mechanics knowledge (thankfully, it’s at least hinted that it may be because of her work as a scavenger;
-she’s a good enough pilot that she can outdo two (or three?) Tie-Fighters; Specifically, she knows how to pilot the Falcon AND also knows how to fix specific Falcon’s issues;
-she’s a skilled fighter in both close-quarter and range combat;
-in the end, she knows how to use the Force to push, pull, trick.

and she is clearly not a skilled Jedi or even ‘just’ a Jedi (that may come in the later films?), her first knowledge of the Force is when Han tells her and Finn about it on the Falcon, no?

Well not as a “status”, but in the end she does both know how to use Force and the handle a lightsaber fight, almost like a “fully trained” Jedi.

She is too perfect? Adapting to her environment in which she has grown up… she has clearly struggled to irk out a living as a scavenger and had to learn to fend for herself - but is quite tidy with the staff and bit and kicked her way through a fight (none of which not really Jedi skills). She also knows how to fix things - probably from her life as a scavenger - and has past experience of flying ships - though not leaving the planet atmosphere).

I’m not saying she shouldn’t know this much because Luke didn’t, just that some of her skills are unexplained, so it feels like she always knows exactly what is needed when is needed. If she can do almost anything, I wonder how they’ll ever be able to put her in a dangerous situation 😄

She then nearly crashes the Falcon, later plans to return to Jakku to await a return of family she deep down knows aren’t coming back, runs from Maz’s castle away from where she has the Force Visions after touching Luke’s old sabre - which is her first real introduction to the Force.

The first time she displays abilities with the Force is when she is being interrogated by Ren - she resists his mind probe and is actually able to probe him back from seemingly learns some abilities or skills from this event to help make she escape via the help of a weak minded stormtrooper. This is being a Mary Sue? It may well be a clue for what is to come in her development, or establishing her character as having the ability to use the Force… or a sign of Ren’s over-confidence, arrogance, or even untrained skills - maybe both?

There’s no enstablishment. Had they at least questioned her sudden knowledge of the Force (like they actually did with Luke’s lightsaber’s finding), it would’ve been fine, though.

The next time she displays abilities with the Force is where she ‘let’s the Force in’ towards the end of her fight with Ren - a fight she was clearly losing to an injured, yet experienced sabre wielder - though hasn’t finished his own training.

Ren keeps hurting himself: if anything, his wound almost seem to make him more powerful. In any case, trained or untrained, wounded or not, Rey suddenly has the upper hand.

And that seemed to me to be the Force guiding her - rather than her having Jedi powers or having more skills than Luke, or being ‘too perfect’… no?

It didn’t seem to me that way :\

Quoting breakdown quotes is starting to hurt my eyes…

your first reply - you ignored the crashing the Falcon bit, she didn’t outdo 2/3 Ties - Finn shot 2 down, yes? A bit of teamwork wouldn’t you say.

your second reply - holding a lightsabre and having a small knowledge of using the Force does not make her an ‘almost fully trained Jedi’.

your third reply - ‘just that some of her skills are unexplained, so it feels like she always knows exactly what is needed when is needed’ - makes little sense.

your fourth reply - ‘sudden knowledge of the Force’ - we’ve established she has knowledge of The Force beforehand - but not how to use it before the interrogation scene with Ren. During the interrogation she gains that knowledge from Ren himself, no?

your fifth reply - you’re reaching a lot there in claiming being shot by a powerful bowcaster made him more powerful? and Rey still only had the upper hand when she let the Force in.

your sixth reply - ok, that’s your interpretation of it.

Yeah she still had to get a feel for using the lightsaber so she wouldn’t be winning the fight from the start but again if you know the first thing about swords then you know that going on the offense with one takes a lot more energy then being on the defense. In other words the whole time Ren is fighting ray he is wounded and he is not trying to kill her, but he is using more energy then she is when he is wounded so when she gets a feel for the weapon and she gets mad he is in trouble. Really he lost control for less then thirty seconds and that cost him the fight, even the best sword fighters can have this happen to them. Also again what proof do we see in the film that Ren is really good with a lightsaber, do we see him defeat anyone who is trained with a lightsaber in the movie, if the movie is supposed to stand on it’s own then what proof are we given that he knows what he is doing with a lightsaber. All we know is that he killed some other Jedi, but we are never told it is in a lightsaber fight.

Oh and as for Rey knowing about the gas and how the controls work, if she had to interact with those systems at all while doing the installs for that big guy on the planet then she would need to know how those systems worked. Now she may not remember every detail every second of her life because it was not the center of her existence but have you ever tried to make repairs or upgrades to a car or a computer without knowing the basics of how the systems work? It can’t be done because you will end up wrecking the thing.

Oh and here are just a few skills/ powers/ plot points that are in the original Star Wars that were not explained before they showed up in the theatrical cut and seem to come out of nowhere.

Obiwan being able to use the Jedi mind trick on the Stormtroopers.

Leia being able to understands Chewbaca when she takes over for Han during the tie fighter attack.

Leia knowing how to help Chewbaca pilot the Falcon during said attack, to the point where she is even able to give damage reports.

Luke being able to use the force. He trains once for about thirty seconds with Obiwan.

The hidden storage compartments on the Falcon. They come completely out of nowhere and are only there to advance the plot, their existence is never even hinted at before hand.

Luke being able to out fly trained pilots and hit a target even a computer can’t. Remember the line about him being a great pilot was cut from the theatrical cut and it wasn’t until I heard the radio version that I knew the T-16 was a ship and not the type of speeder he was driving around. In the movie it is not made clear and we never hear about him piloting a ship before this, except for him saying “I am not such a bad pilot myself” but this seems like him bragging to Han and Obiwan rolls his eyes at this claim, so the movie it’s self up to that point leads us to believe that Luke knows nothing about piloting. The only way a new viewer to the film could know where Luke’s skills comes from is if they somehow knew about the deleted scenes, but that assumes they read a novel or youtube existed back in 77. Also it still doesn’t make much sense since Luke doesn’t seem to know how hyperspace works and the flashing lights on the Falcon’s controls seem to puzzle him and he needs Han to explain both of these things to him, and yet they must be some for of standardized controls that most ships use or how else do we explain Leia knowing how to use the Falcon later in the same movie? Unless there is some untold story that she and Han are keeping under wraps where she was on the ship before and Han taught her how to fly it. This is a massive plot hole that makes no sense to this day and makes bot Luke and Leia Marry Sues.

I have to wonder why the people attacking this movie for being worthless garbage are not doing the same to Star Wars. If Rey is a Marry Sue then Luke is one too and that means Star Wars has been a piece of worthless garbage that should be burnt from day one.