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ROTJ is the best Star Wars film... discuss! — Page 36

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DominicCobb said:

imperialscum said:

DominicCobb said:

imperialscum said:

Delicieuxz, I agree. Endor has some amazing visuals.

Aren’t you the one who doesn’t think Skellig Michael has any place in a Star Wars film??

Yes, that is me. At least not in the state it was shot in TFA. It was ugly. At least they could wait for some better weather.

This is truly baffling.

What was wrong with the weather other than it being a little windy?

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I do like that another non-dark side Skywalker was revealed to exist. It allowed for Vader’s “If you will not turn, perhaps she will,” moment and Luke’s reaction to it.

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That’s my favorite part. I laugh every time.

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Delicieuxz said:

The Force can be with groups and individuals who haven’t trained before. Luke and Leia had been with the Ewoks, and their thoughts might have been a catalyst for the Force to be in their presence. Also, the Endor fight concerned the Force on both sides, so there could have been a heavy Force presence in general.

The Force being catalized by Luke didn’t help Biggs, Porkins and the other pilots who got shot down over the Death Star. In Star Wars, we see the Rebels suffer heavy losses until one pilot, who is strong in the Force, manages to land one crucial shot. In Jedi, there are dozens of Ewoks, who are fighting for a long time and apparently have the force, as they have virtually no losses. Chewie stealing the Walker was only necessary to get the Imperials to open the bunker doors, not to turn the fight against the troops that were already outside.

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The walker Chewie took captured took out another AT-ST, which surely had an impact on the battle. And was a speeder bike taken out by the captured AT-ST? I don’t recall.

And maybe the force did help in those other situations, since Luke survived those times, even though he hadn’t been trained much then. Also, it isn’t known how strongly the force was working in either side then - but Vader was present, so there was a strong dark force presence. Though Obi’s spirit could have been with the rebel fighters during their attack on the DS before he speaks to Luke.

During the battle on Endor, I think all force minds, living and spirit are focused on it at that point: Luke, Leia, Obi, Yoda, Vader, the Emperor (who seems to be overconfident and more into dicking around with Luke than concentrating on the battle).

Regarding a previous comment, the people, like general Ackbar saying “May the force be with you” are not saying it as a general “God bless you” type of thing, they’re saying it because they believe it, mean it, and hope for it.

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The Ewoks took out at least two walkers on their own, the captured walker did not turn the battle, it just allowed them to win faster.

Just look at Star Wars, Obi-Wan says that luck is basically the force at work, so Luke taking a lucky shot at the Death Star is due to the force. The force interfering one time when it really matters seems plausible, the force constantly boosting the fighting skills of a whole group stretches it too far, at least for me.

However, I am not saying that Jedi “doesn’t feel like Star Wars”, that it doesn’t “belong in the canon” or that it is “shit”.

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TV’s Frink said:

imperialscum said:

TV’s Frink said:
If you like the Ewoks, feel free to continue your enjoyment of them.

I don’t particularly like ewoks. It is just that the rebel victory is completely feasible. Especially when compared to the other unlikely stuff in the trilogy.

Lololololololol

For comparison. Rebel escape from Hoth is way more unreasonable than rebels destroying the shield generator on Endor. The imperials had a massive fleet blocking the planet. Okay they might have temporary disable one star destroyer at a time during the short window period when each transport was dispatched, but the imps had plenty. Even if we forget about the star destroyers themselves, where were countless of TIE fighters? Why weren’t they deployed? One transport and two x-wings would be an extremely easy job for a few TIE fighters. And why didn’t the TIE fighters cover the space around the rebel base and consequently let Luke’s x-wing escape unopposed?

真実

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Good observation. Is this now more or less unreasonable than a certain thing ending in a certain box in a certain movie?

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darklordoftech said:

I do like that another non-dark side Skywalker was revealed to exist. It allowed for Vader’s “If you will not turn, perhaps she will,” moment and Luke’s reaction to it.

Interestingly, if you look very closely at Vader he is holding Luke’s lightsaber at that point. He was supposed to have thrown it away. oOssibly why it is a bit off how Luke comes out of nowhere as there is footage not in there.
Also, this is the first example of “Force interrogation” we see, pre-Kylo Ren…
That is one of if not the hi-light of the OT for me. The music for that sequence is just superb.

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Delicieuxz said:

Regarding a previous comment, the people, like general Ackbar saying “May the force be with you” are not saying it as a general “God bless you” type of thing, they’re saying it because they believe it, mean it, and hope for it.

Han says it to Luke before the Battle of Yavin. He doesn’t believe it.

It’s the Rebel “good luck” saying. Up until Luke becomes a Jedi, no one has seen the Force in action and there’s no reason they’d believe in it.

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Frank your Majesty said:

Good observation. Is this now more or less unreasonable than a certain thing ending in a certain box in a certain movie?

Ha!

I know we’re in the wrong thread for this, but the continued slamming of one movie and forgiving of these movies boggles the mind.

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Frank your Majesty said:

However, I am not saying that Jedi “doesn’t feel like Star Wars”, that it doesn’t “belong in the canon” or that it is “shit”.

For the record, I’m not saying any of these things either. But the Ewoks are the weak link in a generally strong movie.

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Agreed.

I also thought the Hensonitis that the movie contracted was lame. I cringe every time I see Jabba’s rubbery pig guards.

And I adore Jim Henson’s life work. Just not here. Jedi began the descent into the childish bullshit in the prequels.

Luke in black was awesome though. And his green lightsaber was so cool the first time I saw it!

I also think the ewoks could have been done better, in other words that they didn’t completely fail as characters. This is why I have hope for future edits.

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Had Henson’s Creature Shop actually worked on the movie, it might have been a different story. ILM was simply stretched too thin and their creature shop all but vanished eventually.

Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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Do animal noises create a requirement for membership in the Screen Actor’s Guild?

If not they could have saved some money that way.

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The screenplay for ROTJ is a mess in parts, but it actually is quite clever at making the audience believe in stuff that GL came up with on the spur of the moment.

I’m talking, of course, about the idea that Darth Vader was the same person as Anakin Skywalker, which wasn’t suggested even by ESB (where Vader claims merely to be Luke’s father, not to be the same guy as Obi-Wan’s best friend).

Meanwhile, ROTJ somehow manages to make bits of storyline that had been planned since the first film – i.e, the whole Luke/Leia brother-sister incest plotline – look completely artless and spur-of the moment. It’s like a goddam magic act, I tells ya.

“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”

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Leia’s revelation was pretty “Forced” 😄
I think Vader was indeed suggested to be Anakin in ESB by Yoda, in the way he ironically says “Ah, father. Powerful Jedi was he…powerful Jedi”, probably implying that him being “powerful” brought him to his fall. Or that’s what I always though at least 😄

The Original Trilogy’s Timeline Reconstruction: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Implied-starting-date-of-the-Empire-from-OT-dialogue/post/786201/#TopicPost786201

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That’s a good point! But it’s left ambiguous, probably intentionally so (rather like that Significant Look on Alec Guinness’ face in SW 1977 when Luke asks how his father died.)

“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”