that would have been a hillarious plot alternative, Soylent green made from gunguns.
*sigh* Soylent brown is made from Gungans. That’s why its tastes like week-old grease and leaves an unpleasant coating in your mouth after eating it.
I don’t think they ever filmed anything with a force ghost to be cut… I thought it was just something thrown around in the early concept art?
This review says all I will ever need to say about it http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-star-wars-the-force-awakens-stinks-20151226-column.html
“watching “The Force Awakens,” I felt as though I was being shown a trailer for the next four movies in the series”.
This review is closer to my own experience…the sensation that I had been manipulated into paying to see an encore performance…
To be honest that’s how I feel every time I watch ANH. I walk away really enjoying the film but I always regard ESB and ROTJ as having the more important moments and that in turn makes me want to watch the others.
The fact that I feel this way about both films bodes well IMO
Ah…very good…! 😉
I was once…but now I’m not… Further: zyzzogeton
“It wasn’t the flood that destroyed the pantry…”
TV’s Frink said:
And how do you know Luke told anyone what really happened anyway? He could have easily wanted to keep the whole thing to himself.
That’s been suggested somewhere before, but in my mind, it’s absurd. To understand why it’s absurd is a bit complex, and many people won’t take the time to digest it, but it is absurd.
Here’s why: Vader’s redemption is probably the happiest, greatest thing that has ever happened to Luke and a shining example of how GOOD TRIUMPHS OVER EVIL.
With Yoda’s passing, Luke is now the only champion of the Jedi Knights. He’s the only one. It is his duty, his calling, to tell a whole new generation about the Light Side of the Force and warn them away from the terrible dangers of the Dark Side.
So as the new Head Chief Jedi, Luke’s job, Luke’s duty, would be to spread the message of the power of the Light over the Dark. As Yoda said, the Dark is not more powerful, but it’s easier and seductive and must be resisted.
There simply would be no better story, no better evidence, no better shining example of how GOOD TRIUMPHS OVER EVIL than the story of Luke’s very own father.
That is not something he’d just keep to himself.
I am not a moderator here but I’m quite sure you will never be banned for simply expressing an opinion on a film.
Although insisting TFA is worse than the prequels probably walks the line. 😉
;-p
I was once…but now I’m not… Further: zyzzogeton
“It wasn’t the flood that destroyed the pantry…”
- Why did Ren “pray” to Darth Vader’s helmet when Luke, Leia, and Han surely would have told Ren the story of how Darth Vader was redeemed? Ren is shown asking Darth Vader to show him the way to resist the light…but Darth Vader would be the worst person in the galaxy, living or dead, to ask for advice on that topic, wouldn’t he? THIS IS NOT A NITPICK.
You are right, this is not a nitpick, however it’s very plausible that Ren came to believe that LLH lied to him about Vader.
Not to weaken my point, which I think is legitimate, but I can’t resist pointing out that he definitely would have thought “Gee, my grandfather wouldn’t have done that, because that would have made him a WEAK VILLAIN.”
And how do you know Luke told anyone what really happened anyway? He could have easily wanted to keep the whole thing to himself.
Agreed…Luke does not strike me as being particularly chatty…I could well imagine a scenario in which he did not even realize Ren idolized his grandfather, simply taking for granted that no one would do such a thing.
And I guarantee you everyone in the First Order either didn’t know the real story or refused to believe it. Certainly Snoke would have discredited that story every chance he had, especially to Ren.
But this is all speculation for now. Perhaps more will be revealed in the next two movies.
I was once…but now I’m not… Further: zyzzogeton
“It wasn’t the flood that destroyed the pantry…”
I don’t think they ever filmed anything with a force ghost to be cut… I thought it was just something thrown around in the early concept art?
I know there’s been talk about it definitely for ep8, where he is going to talk to Ren as force ghost>? From what I’ve read it was in the original script hance the concept art, so yes i don’t think it was actually filmed but it very nearly happened. If they are going to relate to the prequels which they will have to as they are now cannon, this doesn’t bode well for the restoration of the OUT.
TV’s Frink said:
And how do you know Luke told anyone what really happened anyway? He could have easily wanted to keep the whole thing to himself.That’s been suggested somewhere before, but in my mind, it’s absurd. To understand why it’s absurd is a bit complex, and many people won’t take the time to digest it, but it is absurd.
Here’s why: Vader’s redemption is probably the happiest, greatest thing that has ever happened to Luke and a shining example of how GOOD TRIUMPHS OVER EVIL.
With Yoda’s passing, Luke is now the only champion of the Jedi Knights. He’s the only one. It is his duty, his calling, to tell a whole new generation about the Light Side of the Force and warn them away from the terrible dangers of the Dark Side.
So as the new Head Chief Jedi, Luke’s job, Luke’s duty, would be to spread the message of the power of the Light over the Dark. As Yoda said, the Dark is not more powerful, but it’s easier and seductive and must be resisted.
There simply would be no better story, no better evidence, no better shining example of how GOOD TRIUMPHS OVER EVIL than the story of Luke’s very own father.
That is not something he’d just keep to himself.
And like I said before it’s more likely that he would tell his close friends and his students at the academy then telling the entire galaxy. Also seeing as how the Galaxy can’t decide who Han Solo is there’s no saying as to whether the entirety of the galaxy in it’s totality would accept Luke’s news.
EDIT:
Also maybe Kylo Ren is in denial over Vader turning to good. I remember bringing that up too.
TV’s Frink said:
And how do you know Luke told anyone what really happened anyway? He could have easily wanted to keep the whole thing to himself.That’s been suggested somewhere before, but in my mind, it’s absurd. To understand why it’s absurd is a bit complex, and many people won’t take the time to digest it, but it is absurd.
Here’s why: Vader’s redemption is probably the happiest, greatest thing that has ever happened to Luke and a shining example of how GOOD TRIUMPHS OVER EVIL.
With Yoda’s passing, Luke is now the only champion of the Jedi Knights. He’s the only one. It is his duty, his calling, to tell a whole new generation about the Light Side of the Force and warn them away from the terrible dangers of the Dark Side.
So as the new Head Chief Jedi, Luke’s job, Luke’s duty, would be to spread the message of the power of the Light over the Dark. As Yoda said, the Dark is not more powerful, but it’s easier and seductive and must be resisted.
There simply would be no better story, no better evidence, no better shining example of how GOOD TRIUMPHS OVER EVIL than the story of Luke’s very own father.
That is not something he’d just keep to himself.
Unless he might have been deeply conflicted by the fact that his father sacrificed himself to save him rather than having allowed Luke the opportunity to save his father in turn…the concept that his father ultimately chose him over the emperor, power, and life itself might have a very sobering aspect that might keep Luke quiet and humble as to the telling…consider that Luke had grown up hating Vader only to discover too late that he was deeply mistaken as to the character and true identity of same. Luke may have felt a great deal of regret and the pangs of a missed opportunity whenever the subject might come to the fore. Ruminating on the events of the day might even be so difficult as to evoke a semblance of PTSD…
It is difficult to say for certain…
I was once…but now I’m not… Further: zyzzogeton
“It wasn’t the flood that destroyed the pantry…”
It is difficult to say for certain…
Agreed!
And this is why I am bothered so much by many of the complaints in this thread, and Mr. Lizard’s in particular. For most of these situations there are many plausible explanations (see the lightsaber on Cloud City discussion), but he’s insistent that his explanation is the ONLY plausible one. And it happens to be the one that makes the movie bad, naturally.
I am also understanding that Ren views Darth Vader as the true personality of his grandfather and that reedeemed Anakin was just a corrupted version of him. So even if a force ghost talked to him he might dismiss it as not his true character or some sort of Jedi trickery.
I am also understanding that Ren views Darth Vader as the true personality of his grandfather and that reedeemed Anakin was just a corrupted version of him. So even if a force ghost talked to him he might dismiss it as not his true character or some sort of Jedi trickery.
This might be true. What we’ve seen of Kylo Ren (especially after he killed his father) is that this kid has some issues. Who knows what’s going through this man’s head.
I am also understanding that Ren views Darth Vader as the true personality of his grandfather and that reedeemed Anakin was just a corrupted version of him. So even if a force ghost talked to him he might dismiss it as not his true character or some sort of Jedi trickery.
I like this theory, but in order to be consistent I have to ask was there anything in the film that supports it?
And like I said before it’s more likely that he would tell his close friends and his students at the academy then telling the entire galaxy. Also seeing as how the Galaxy can’t decide who Han Solo is there’s no saying as to whether the entirety of the galaxy in it’s totality would accept Luke’s news.
The galaxy’s opinion isn’t the subject; the subject is whether or not Luke would have shared the good news of Vader’s redemption with his nephew Ben Solo (Kylo Ren).
EDIT:
Also maybe Kylo Ren is in denial over Vader turning to good. I remember bringing that up too.
At some point Ben Solo was good, yes? Otherwise Luke would have felt Ben was evil and not attempted to train him as a Jedi. So I think it’s safe to assume that before Ben became Ren he was a good, or mostly good person…yes? And then at some point, as Leia said in the movie, Snoke turned him to the Dark Side.
OK PAUSE RIGHT THERE! At this point…at this juncture…as Ben is transitioning to Ren, WHY WOULDN’T ANAKIN’S GHOST APPEAR TO BEN TO TALK HIM OUT OF IT?!
There are only two answers to this question: He did or he didn’t.
If he DID, then why is Ren “praying” to Vader’s helmet?
If he did NOT, WHY NOT?! Did Anakin lose the power to appear as a Force Ghost?!
Also do we even know id the force ghosts could appear to anyone but Luke? It didn’t seem anyone else could see them at the end of Jedi.
The truth about Vader coming out publicly would certainly have affected Leia and her ability to lead.
If you were related to someone widely considered to be one of the most evil persons in the galaxy, would you advertise it?
Where were you in '77?
IT’S HARD TO TAKE YOU SERIOUSLY WHEN YOU SHOUT
And for someone who bends over and around so severely to point out the flaws in TFA and defend the OT for the same flaws, you sure demonstrate inflexible thinking.
IT’S HARD TO TAKE YOU SERIOUSLY
You keep saying this. But then you respond to my posts. You are clearly taking me seriously, even by your own admission that I frustrated you and that my critiques bother you the most, so clearly I am in your head and you are taking me seriously, so you are relieved of having to type the words, “It’s hard to take you seriously…”
I’m trying to take you seriously as a courtesy. The fact that I can even do it in the slightest is a testament to my extreme generosity.
And anyways I’m just mocking YOU FOR typing SELECT WORDS in ALL cAPs.
I am also understanding that Ren views Darth Vader as the true personality of his grandfather and that reedeemed Anakin was just a corrupted version of him. So even if a force ghost talked to him he might dismiss it as not his true character or some sort of Jedi trickery.
I think it’ll be a schizophrenic ghost of Anakin perhaps showing both his good and dark side.
I am also understanding that Ren views Darth Vader as the true personality of his grandfather and that reedeemed Anakin was just a corrupted version of him. So even if a force ghost talked to him he might dismiss it as not his true character or some sort of Jedi trickery.
I like this theory, but in order to be consistent I have to ask was there anything in the film that supports it?
There was a deleted scene supposedly that said this:
From http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2015/12/the-deleted-scenes-of-star-wars-the-force-awakens.html
Kylo Ren and Supreme Leader Snoke had a discussion about Darth Vader. Snoke says that he viewed Vader as an exemplary individual who let sentiment get the better of him, and Kylo agrees. The conversation also reveals that Snoke was old enough to have witnessed the Clone Wars in their entirety.
And like I said before it’s more likely that he would tell his close friends and his students at the academy then telling the entire galaxy. Also seeing as how the Galaxy can’t decide who Han Solo is there’s no saying as to whether the entirety of the galaxy in it’s totality would accept Luke’s news.
The galaxy’s opinion isn’t the subject; the subject is whether or not Luke would have shared the good news of Vader’s redemption with his nephew Ben Solo (Kylo Ren).
EDIT:
Also maybe Kylo Ren is in denial over Vader turning to good. I remember bringing that up too.
At some point Ben Solo was good, yes? Otherwise Luke would have felt Ben was evil and not attempted to train him as a Jedi. So I think it’s safe to assume that before Ben became Ren he was a good, or mostly good person…yes? And then at some point, as Leia said in the movie, Snoke turned him to the Dark Side.
OK PAUSE RIGHT THERE! At this point…at this juncture…as Ben is transitioning to Ren, WHY WOULDN’T ANAKIN’S GHOST APPEAR TO BEN TO TALK HIM OUT OF IT?!
Good question and a possible reason is that perhaps after 5 or so years Force Ghosts must leave this plane and move onto into the afterlife or “the netherworld of The Force” as Yoda called it in ROTS
If he DID, then why is Ren “praying” to Vader’s helmet?
I am also understanding that Ren views Darth Vader as the true personality of his grandfather and that reedeemed Anakin was just a corrupted version of him. So even if a force ghost talked to him he might dismiss it as not his true character or some sort of Jedi trickery.
also let’s not forget that Kylo Ren is kind of crazy
I am also understanding that Ren views Darth Vader as the true personality of his grandfather and that reedeemed Anakin was just a corrupted version of him. So even if a force ghost talked to him he might dismiss it as not his true character or some sort of Jedi trickery.
This might be true. What we’ve seen of Kylo Ren (especially after he killed his father) is that this kid has some issues. Who knows what’s going through this man’s head.
This is another good point…in assuming a rational villain, the possibility that Ren might be suffering from schizophrenia or psychosis was overlooked…it would not only explain his outbursts and patricide, but equally his inconsistencies in usage of the force…
I was once…but now I’m not… Further: zyzzogeton
“It wasn’t the flood that destroyed the pantry…”
TV’s Frink said:
For most of these situations there are many plausible explanations (see the lightsaber on Cloud City discussion),
Indeed. Because it is entirely plausible that Luke’s lightsaber fell down the main shaft at Bespin; got sucked into one of those, what, dozens of exhaust ducts; got caught up somehow, thereby preventing it from falling out and down to the fiery surface of the gas giant; was then found by someone or some thing in the duct (or wherever the duct may dump out or collect); recognized by that someone or some thing as something worth not throwing in the junk pile; then taken to – out of literally millions of planets in the galaxy – Maz Kanata, where she put it neatly in a box. In a box, to be given, someday, to someone, whom she met literally 10 or 15 minutes earlier.
Indeed, that is, in your words, an entirely “plausible explanation.”
If Rey experienced visions touching Luke’s old saber, Kylo may have had them from touching Vaders helmet?
Where were you in '77?