Please! I’d love to see that.
I remember reading posts from an early version of the web where some guys were discussing ROTJ… Anybody remember that or have the link?
That was probably the old usenet archives. Don’t know what happened to those since Google absorbed them.
Where were you in '77?
Thanks, I’ll dig around. Somebody must have archived them somewhere.
War does not make one great.
I honestly can’t believe that anybody claiming to be a Star Wars fan could genuinely think that AOTC or any of the prequels is better than TFA.
I would rather watch the Rathtar scene from TFA on repeat for two hours than have to sit through one viewing of the droid factory scene where CGI threepio get his head stuck on a battle droid.
That was genius in comparison to replicating an entire film.
Are you actually serious?
The droid factory scene in AOTC was genius compared to nothing. That whole film stinks, and that scene in particular was insanely bad.
Anyway, here’s the old Return of the Jedi posts from 1983…,
http://cinetropolis.net/return-of-the-jedi-and-the-forum-that-time-forgot/
War does not make one great.
I’m reeling from the fact that there is even a TFA vs The Prequels debate at all. You guys are cray cray.
War does not make one great.
This thread is nothing compared to the other thread. The cray there cannot be measured.
I honestly can’t believe that anybody claiming to be a Star Wars fan could genuinely think that AOTC or any of the prequels is better than TFA.
I would rather watch the Rathtar scene from TFA on repeat for two hours than have to sit through one viewing of the droid factory scene where CGI threepio get his head stuck on a battle droid.
That was genius in comparison to replicating an entire film.
So… we ever getting the Ignore feature back?
Ha.
I’m reeling from the fact that there is even a TFA vs The Prequels debate at all. You guys are cray cray.
They are all poor attempts at Star Wars films so I can see the logic.
Are you actually serious?
The droid factory scene in AOTC was genius compared to nothing. That whole film stinks, and that scene in particular was insanely bad.
Anyway, here’s the old Return of the Jedi posts from 1983…,
http://cinetropolis.net/return-of-the-jedi-and-the-forum-that-time-forgot/
That’s a good review in comparison to some TFA scrutiny.
I seem to recall a great deal of Star Wars lore indicating that the dark side is the quick and easy path, wherein its weilders often learn powerful tricks swiftly, but at the cost of other skills, particularly with self mastery. I could easily see a Dark user like Kylo Ren, who is clearly powerful and talented, but also immature and lacking in self control, performing such a potent move, but in a rage motivated battle losing to someone inherently stronger.
This is a GREAT observation and needs to be spread all over the Internet. Seriously!
I’ve seen a few people now claim that the prequels were better than TFA because “at least they were original”. But were they?
As we all know Star Wars (1977) wasn’t exactly original either (Dune, Flash Gordon, Hidden Fortress, Dune, 633 Squadron, The Searchers, Dune etc). The difference is nobody had seen that compendium on screen before.
TPM too was a mash up, when it worked it was a mash up of Ben Hur and War and Peace, Not so much so when it was a bunch of guys sitting in chairs or a bunch of puppets, CGI and costumes sitting in the same senate pod slightly rotated a few thousand times.
Similar concept but different mix.
And it’s the second most disappointing film in my life.
TFA is exactly the same plot as ANH if I want to see that film again I can watch the original…or Star Trek (2009) from the same director.
What is the most dissapointing film?
Not enough people read the EU.
I’ve seen a few people now claim that the prequels were better than TFA because “at least they were original”. But were they? TPM is similar to ANH in most respects, with its final act being ROTJ. And then we get to AOTC… Please tell me what film i am describing here? 😉
The three main characters get split up in this film. One goes off on a mission while the other two fly off somewhere else, where they start to fall in love. There are no space battles, just chases. The main battle is a ground battle on a planet where they face a mechanical foe. There is a chase through an asteroid field where, to evade their pursuer they hide inside/ on an asteroid. The bad guy asks the good guy to join him and together they can defeat the bigger bad guy. There is a lightsaber fight and a skywalkers arm/ hand gets cut off. the final shot in the film has two of the main characters standing on one side, with R2 & 3P0 on the other.
but, i guess when George does it, it rhymes 😉
Though one might be potentially able to argue any 2 films into having similarities in general scope and terms, the essential plots of the PT diverge considerably from the OT.
ANH, on the other hand, not only rhymes with TFA…it even uses the same words in the refrain…
I was once…but now I’m not… Further: zyzzogeton
“It wasn’t the flood that destroyed the pantry…”
I honestly can’t believe that anybody claiming to be a Star Wars fan could genuinely think that AOTC or any of the prequels is better than TFA.
I am not doing so out of a sheer sense of misplaced humor if that is what you might be suspecting…my frustration is genuine…and the realization that it has brought to mind is equally so.
I would rather watch the Rathtar scene from TFA on repeat for two hours than have to sit through one viewing of the droid factory scene where CGI threepio get his head stuck on a battle droid.
I would rather watch a film with more space/droid battles than one in which yet another Death Star is blown up with even less rationale than the prior two efforts…
I was once…but now I’m not… Further: zyzzogeton
“It wasn’t the flood that destroyed the pantry…”
What is the most dissapointing film?
Prometheus
darth_ender said:
I seem to recall a great deal of Star Wars lore indicating that the dark side is the quick and easy path, wherein its weilders often learn powerful tricks swiftly, but at the cost of other skills, particularly with self mastery. I could easily see a Dark user like Kylo Ren, who is clearly powerful and talented, but also immature and lacking in self control, performing such a potent move, but in a rage motivated battle losing to someone inherently stronger.
Ren wasn’t characterized as a pretender in the rest of the film though. That’s the problem. He wasn’t consistently portrayed as some weak wannabe. His power was virtually unlimited until the ending, and then at the end, it’s suddenly not. The excuse “well he wasn’t fully trained yet” is just dumb. It’s like retconning within the same film.
Look at Luke in Empire Strikes Back. He’s not fully trained, but was he badass Return of the Jedi Luke throughout the movie? No! Luke grows throughout the entire film, and yet he’s still always portrayed as not good enough. Luke succeeds in doing this. He succeeds in doing that. And yet, from the beginning of the film all the way until the climax, the message is always present that HE … IS … NOT … READY.
TFA is exactly the same plot as ANH if I want to see that film again I can watch the original…or Star Trek (2009) from the same director.
Please describe the plot for both ANH and TFA.
His power was virtually unlimited until the ending, and then at the end, it’s suddenly not.
I’m not sure if you stayed awake during the whole film, or you just willfully ignore things that don’t support your positions. Are you claiming that Ren’s interrogation of Rey showed his virtually unlimited power?
In my opinion, the prequel scripts and characters had no life. They were boring, stiff, terrible. The Force Awakens script and characters do have life, but none of it means anything. There is no cohesion. No harmony. Nothing works together in sync in order to tell the same story. It’s a ****ing mess.
I wonder if there is too much television influence infiltrating itself into Star Wars. I hate most television series because they don’t have a ****ing story to tell. They create some interesting tagline idea, some in-story world, some interesting characters – but then it’s just mindless week to week, what kind of plot twist can we think up next? The writers have no clue where the story is going beyond the immediate future. If you look at the story from beginning to the end, you could summarize most series by saying stuff happened. The end.
Creating a coherent story for a feature film is a completely different animal, on the other hand. Maybe the sloppy mess of TFA was forced by the studio and too many unintelligible rewrites, I don’t know, but the script is so bad that this film isn’t sitting well with me.
TV’s Frink said:
I’m not sure if you stayed awake during the whole film, or you just willfully ignore things that don’t support your positions. Are you claiming that Ren’s interrogation of Rey showed his virtually unlimited power?
His physical power ldo.
TV’s Frink said:
I’m not sure if you stayed awake during the whole film, or you just willfully ignore things that don’t support your positions. Are you claiming that Ren’s interrogation of Rey showed his virtually unlimited power?His physical power ldo.
Not sure what “ldo” means, but he uses the Force. How is “physical power” relevant?
I’m honestly confused what you are trying to say.
The plot is defined by the things that happen to the characters. The situations.
So a young restless person, living in a wilderness meets an older mentor figure and a separate possible love interest on a quest to deliver information to an underdog resistance movement. They enter a hub of illegal activity, a bar and get into trouble. A planet is destroyed by the antagonists with a super-weapon that becomes the final test for the plucky rebels. The main characters launch a rescue mission to save a female character being tortured by the antagonist for the information. The mentor is killed by the antagonist who has a close connection to him while the protagonist and his/her allies are unable to assist because of a large chasm obstacle. The weapon is destroyed but the principle antagonists have done damage and survived. The protagonist has been pointed onto a path where they will receive further instruction from another stronger tutor.
These are plot points.
The characters in TFA are new and interesting and played well and directed well but they are doing the same thing as the other characters in first film. It’s just too similar to be engaging to me.
Other plots could be used with these characters and set up two more films and be enjoying but new, that didn’t happen.
So while I wasn’t furious with the film as I was with TPM and while it’s a much better constructed film than any of the prequels I was indifferent to the finer qualities of the piece because the plot was just too familiar.
Your comparison is fair. However, I take issue when you say “exact same plot.” There are similarities.
It may just be semantics. I didn’t mind the similarities, you did.