The Force Awakens: Official Review Thread - ** SPOILERS ** — Page 53

Bosk said:

SpilkaBilka said:

Alderaan said:
You guys seriously underestimate how good the original Star Wars script is, how carefully thought out it was, and how well it was executed on screen. The Force Awakens script does not even compare.

+1.

+2

+3

Yeah everybody on this forum underestimates how good the original movie that kickstarted the original trilogy that we love was. Nobody here even likes it.

TV’s Frink said:

This forum needs an upvote system so we can avoid the +6 post.

+1

Bingowings said:

TV’s Frink said:

The prequels sucked. There’s no way to possibly argue they are good or well-made, even if you don’t think they sucked.

The things I like about the prequels are the basic plot points. Palpatine working two sides of a war to his advantage is a bit sophisticated for that sort of film.
The characters were badly defined, the scripts were lousy, the performances and direction clunky and wooden.
With this new film everything is in reverse. The acting is great, the characters are interesting and we’ll directed but what they are doing is so familiar it’s not engaging. For all it’s flaws, and there are many, ROTS felt more like Star Wars to me. All they had to do was write an original plot or mix it up a bit more and TFA would have been perfect. As it stands I’m surprised how ambivalent I feel towards it.

Precisely…exactly…just so…

Bosk said:

HyperNova said:

Alderaan said:

“Complete his training” is relative. If he’s already enough of a badass to freeze someone in mid-air with his mind at will,

It could be that little trick wasn’t even a Force power.
Maybe it was a piece of technology that created a "stasis shield " around an energie beam.

Maybe is was a glitch in the edit, nope it was just as ridiculous as the rest of the film. I just got over prequelitis, now suffering severe sequelitis.

Even if you hate TFA, which it is your right to do, you can’t possibly think it’s even close to being as bad as the prequels. Can you?!

Kepling said:

TV’s Frink said:

The prequels sucked. There’s no way to possibly argue they are good or well-made, even if you don’t think they sucked. But the complaints here make me feel a little bad for Lucas, because he never stood a chance. He could have made the best three movies ever made and it wouldn’t have mattered. I never really bought that argument before, but now seeing it play out with TFA, I kind of buy it. Hell, if this internet existed in 1977, some of you would have ripped Star Wars to absolute shreds.

Fun stuff.

I agree the prequels sucked, but I remember the old days before the SE’s and accessible internet. We tore the OT to shreds back in the day in dank comic store basements, but I forget most of what we complained about thanks to the SE’s (they added so much garbage). All I remember for ANH was parsecs and washers being droid turds, while RotJ took the most heat since it had the weakest story of the 3 (and also Ewoks).

The only reason I have any issue with the prequels is the introduction of slapstick comedy into the SW universe…had Jar Jar and the Roger Rogers been removed the remainder of the films would have been perfectly fine as presented IMHO…

Ahh, the glory days when nerds were real nerds. But I digress.

---

I did go see TFA a 2nd time today so I thought I would share some randoms thoughts about it here with you fine folks. I did skim though reviews and I have to say I agree with many of the perceived problems, and I’ll try to keep this somewhat organized.

Characters:

-Rey ,I though, was a good character for the most part, and Daisy Ridley did a good job acting considering what she was given to work with. Like many others, I felt that her natural gift with the force comes too quickly, especially considering her lack of training.

Agreed

Running off at Maz’s was stupid, but everything on that planet was a mess. Still more of a man than that >Annie in the PT since she has no problems with sand.

Agreed x 3

-Finn was for the most part solid and well acted (again considering the material given to him). His overly emotional hyperventilating towards the beginning I thought was a bit over the top, and trying to go to the outer rim was honestly really out of character.

He appears to have been a man for every occasion, with even no natural aversion to shooting his former comrades while at the same time (thereby unconvincingly) being portrayed as the soldier with a conscience.

Similarly he was shown as the man with no courage…or with courage…with no fighting abilities…or with fighting abilities…with no loyalty…or with loyalty.

-Ren sucked. Many want to label him with things like "emo’ and “Darth Vader wannabe,” but to be honest the correct label for him, IMO, is “Dark Helmet.” When he removes his face mask, it just reinforces this notion.

Ren was very impressive…until he removed his helmet…

-BB8 was, to be honest, worthless. Looks cool and will probably sell a lot of toys, but if he were replaced by R2, or any astromech droid for that matter, the result would be about the same. On the plus side the grappling hooks were better than rockets, but still kind of dumb.

Agreed…

-Poe, also kinda worthless. Hopefully he stays a minor character and keeps BB8.

Agreed.

-Maz was a stupid CGI character. I think some are calling her “Yellow Yoda,” but I’m not 100% sure. Lets all hope she doesn’t end up doing stupid Yoda style flips with a mini light saber.

I did not mind the CGI effects, but I found her character to be annoying…but then again I always found Yoda to be equally so…

-Snoke, another stupid CGI character, and if anyone should be wearing a mask it should be him.

Agreed

-General Hux was a poor General. I think just about every Imperial officer in the OT carried themselves more professionally than Hux did.

He reminded me of the ship commander on Space Balls actually…

-Captain Phasma was menacing for about the 1st 10 minutes, then she showed up later to get stuffed in the trash. That’s right, use her as a plot device then just throw her away, literally.

Agreed

-R2 should have been used more, BB8’s role would have been perfect for him if there wasn’t so much OT crap shoehorned in.

I am not quite so certain. It seemed reasonable to introduce the concept that the galaxy might have in its possession more than a single pair of droids…yet R2 could have been given slightly more to do…though I am not quite at the level of explaining exactly what…

-C3PO was as annoying as ever, but also could have been used more considering him and R2 were originally “observers” of the saga.

Possibly

-Han was a better role for Harrison compared to his other more resent work. I’m sure Han’s role could have been better, but at least he played a somewhat major role in the film.

I was pleasantly surprised with what he did do…though his death was a reluctantly foreseen end…

-Chewie was the same old Chewie. Sucked to see him get shot, but still way better than watching him cut down 1000’s of robots like butter. It’s a good thing to have the possibility of being hurt, maimed, or killed.

I enjoyed seeing him finally get shot…but then I never really liked the character…

-Leia could have had more to do other than some clunky dialog and to stand around in a control room. In response to her complexion I don’t think she has had any plastic surgery or CGI done to her face, some people are just jerks I think.

Some have been unnecessarily hard on her, but I agree that I found her scenes difficult to appreciate. They seemed somehow out of place…more in keeping with a scene from some other film.

-Luke just stood there. Still kinda pissed about that since we don’t get to see the original group together one last time.

The plot wasn’t too bad up to the escape from Jakku, after that point the film started to break down. Han’s freighter was a mess, as was Maz’s palace, and to top it off we get a bigger and badder Death Star mkIII that still sucked compared to the 1st 2. I could go into detail but it’s been well covered in here all ready. The pacing was good up to the Jakku escape, but after that it was off to the races.

I found Jakku to be ridiculous…Rey could talk whatever it was out of its prize catch of a droid…then she treated it as though it was a person after living life as a scavenger on a hard and ruthless planet. She even refused to sell it for no particular reason…and then leaped at Finn with only the droid’s beeping comment to have her suddenly seek him harm over a jacket? This made her seem very unstable.

Maz’s palace was even more ridiculous for reasons ranging from having a lightsaber that now talks to the arrival of 2 groups of ships apparently as genuinely unconcerned about potentially destroying the very thing they appeared most desperate to get a hold of as possible.

The 3rd deathstar was the final straw. To be able to destroy it in a very similar fashion to the previous two (previous two!!)…to have it destroy the sun in its own system in order to destroy distant worlds it should have been intent upon conquering (truly ridiculous…the Order should have shown the power of the weapon and demanded unconditional surrender, but instead it vaporizes the prize planets…leaving it in potential command of what exactly? worlds on the outer rim?) Further, what was it planning to do once the sun was extinguished in its own system? Seemingly the base had only one further shot available to it before the system would be uninhabitable and the base essentially useless…rendering its destruction at great cost seemingly pointless.

The special effects I think were what disappointed me the most considering how much they were pushing the practical effects. I was all ready convinced that CGI has no place in a Star Wars film after the prequels, but this film just reinforced my opinion. The only practical effects that I thought were somewhat impressive were how some of the storm troopers flew in the air from explosions, though there were a few times it happened that I could clearly see that it was CGI. In comparison, all 3 OT films still have numerous practical effects that still to this day impress me that they were able to pull it off. These days it’s just “Oh, too much trouble/money? We’ll just CGI it.” If anyone want’s to respond to this paragraph in regard to CGI, please take a moment and enlighten me how they were able to pull off the shots in the OT. I wholeheartedly believe that RotJ’s biggest strength is the space battle that still to this day has yet to be bested, even with all our CGI.

I generally enjoy CGI so I did not really have any issues with its use…

Over all in my opinion, Rey and Finn carried the film and made it at least watchable. After the 2nd viewing I’m not sure if it’s quite up to RotJ standards, but still way ahead of those stupid prequels.

Overall I found Rey, Finn and Poe all equally tiresome to watch. Rey was a better mechanic than Han on his own ship, a better dualist than Ren on his own turf, a near perfect pilot with no real reason for such experience…(if whiny Luke had out-mastered all of his would-be mentors on his first trek out he would have been equally insufferable)…Finn was too contrary to understand as previously stated…and POE was too full of modern-day glib to be immediately likable…(though perhaps with more screen time he could have shown alternate personality traits).

I wanted to like Rey…if only she had some weakness to overcome to make her relateable…

I considered liking Finn, but I could not determine who he was.

I felt I was being coerced into liking Poe…and for that reason rejected him out of hand: charisma gets under my skin.

I truly wished to enjoy the presence of Ren…I even though highly of his untamed temper as being a masterful concept…but showing him as a mewling boy removed any mystery as to his potential (much as being treated to Van Winkle’s true identity and history did irreparable damage to the image of Vanilla Ice)…and having him soundly beaten at the end only furthered the impression…so that at this point I neither care if he grows more evil, nor do I consider it possible for him to realistically be redeemed. His rage against his father and Luke have not been adequately explained so the entire drive behind his disagreeable attitude is highly discordant and difficult to find conceivable…

Yoda Is Your Father said:

Bosk said:

HyperNova said:

Alderaan said:

“Complete his training” is relative. If he’s already enough of a badass to freeze someone in mid-air with his mind at will,

It could be that little trick wasn’t even a Force power.
Maybe it was a piece of technology that created a "stasis shield " around an energie beam.

Maybe is was a glitch in the edit, nope it was just as ridiculous as the rest of the film. I just got over prequelitis, now suffering severe sequelitis.

Even if you hate TFA, which it is your right to do, you can’t possibly think it’s even close to being as bad as the prequels. Can you?!

It has certainly drawn my attention to their much more original plots…but even if I did not wholly enjoy its substance, I did appreciate the feel of TFA…it was intended to be a more mature film than the prequels…

darth_ender said:

Bosk said:

HyperNova said:

Alderaan said:

“Complete his training” is relative. If he’s already enough of a badass to freeze someone in mid-air with his mind at will,

It could be that little trick wasn’t even a Force power.
Maybe it was a piece of technology that created a "stasis shield " around an energie beam.

Maybe is was a glitch in the edit, nope it was just as ridiculous as the rest of the film. I just got over prequelitis, now suffering severe sequelitis.

I seem to recall a great deal of Star Wars lore indicating that the dark side is the quick and easy path, wherein its weilders often learn powerful tricks swiftly, but at the cost of other skills, particularly with self mastery. I could easily see a Dark user like Kylo Ren, who is clearly powerful and talented, but also immature and lacking in self control, performing such a potent move, but in a rage motivated battle losing to someone inherently stronger.

A fair point…and good to see you again… 😉

Yeah, great point, darth_ender.

What some people seem to be forgetting is mastery of the force isn’t about doing cool tricks and being a badass, it’s about total self-mastery, of your emotions, of your place in the universe, of the energy that links you to all living things. Like Buddhism. You get people who are yoga enthusiasts and vegan and claim to be Buddhist but then they get angry because they get stuck at a traffic light when they’re in a rush. They are strong in the force but they haven’t quite mastered it yet.

I waffled a bit there but hopefully you get what I mean.

And if anybody says my interpretation of the force is wrong because ‘Midichlorians’ I swear I will hunt you down and throttle you.

Please! I’d love to see that.

I remember reading posts from an early version of the web where some guys were discussing ROTJ… Anybody remember that or have the link?

I’ve seen a few people now claim that the prequels were better than TFA because “at least they were original”. But were they? TPM is similar to ANH in most respects, with its final act being ROTJ. And then we get to AOTC… Please tell me what film i am describing here? 😉

The three main characters get split up in this film. One goes off on a mission while the other two fly off somewhere else, where they start to fall in love. There are no space battles, just chases. The main battle is a ground battle on a planet where they face a mechanical foe. There is a chase through an asteroid field where, to evade their pursuer they hide inside/ on an asteroid. The bad guy asks the good guy to join him and together they can defeat the bigger bad guy. There is a lightsaber fight and a skywalkers arm/ hand gets cut off. the final shot in the film has two of the main characters standing on one side, with R2 & 3P0 on the other.

but, i guess when George does it, it rhymes 😉

I honestly can’t believe that anybody claiming to be a Star Wars fan could genuinely think that AOTC or any of the prequels is better than TFA.

I would rather watch the Rathtar scene from TFA on repeat for two hours than have to sit through one viewing of the droid factory scene where CGI threepio get his head stuck on a battle droid.