What didn't you like about TFA? SPOILERS — Page 13

Take note, rest of thread…that is how to construct an argument. I don’t fully agree for several reasons (mainly the “one moment of concentration” complaint), but I certainly grant that’s one semi-reasonable way to look at it. 😉

Post Praetorian said:

SilverWook said:

Egad, now I want to invoke the bunny! 😉

Agreed…!

And some new folks need to learn some manners in their replies around here.

…and some old members too…

You and I are too old to learn new tricks. 😉

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

Post Praetorian said:

imperialscum said:

The two lightsabre duels at the end were just stupid. They were there just for the sake of film having a lightsabre duel. And if they really had to make it like this, at least the dark side guy should kick both of their asses. And please spare your time, I really don’t want to hear dumb arguments such as: “but she practised with pole stick” or “he practised with stun baton”.

Ren was a poor villain

I wouldn’t go far but I’m sure the point of the scene is to show that Kylo isn’t as powerful as his walk makes him out to be.

Rey was simply lucky?

Pretty much just like Luke blowing up the Death Star. Both things were pretty much impossible but they both happened because it needed to be established that our main characters are uber special.

That is pretty much the opposite as it should be. Establishing a weak villain is a bullet in a knee for a film. If he kicked their asses and “sent” them back home training, it would at least add some motive to the story/characters.

Kylo being “weak” now is part of his character arc. If it makes you feel any better Snoke told Hux to get Kylo off Starkiller Base so his training could be completed. So don’t worry; Kylo is going to be badass but hopefully they don’t make him just like Vader in Episode VIII to appease people. If anything they need to do that in Episode IX

If you say so. Certainly easy to say when proof isn’t required.

That_OT_Ruler said:

I can bet you money that there are tons of faneditors out there who’ve made fan edits and haven’t paid for the movie.

And they’re pirates too.

That_OT_Ruler said:

TV’s Frink said:

If you say so. Certainly easy to say when proof isn’t required.

That_OT_Ruler said:

I can bet you money that there are tons of faneditors out there who’ve made fan edits and haven’t paid for the movie.

And they’re pirates too.

I know, I know. I’m not trying to justify the use of an illegal source, but I’m just explaining why I’m using it at the moment.

The point is that you aren’t supposed to use it until it’s released. You don’t download illegal sources.

Fanediting exists in a legal grey area and we don’t want anything that makes it look worse.

I’m going to bow out of this part of the discussion. I am a moderator on FE.org and we have a zero tolerance policy when it comes to discussion of bootlegs and other pirated materials, and I think it should be very obvious why. But this place is not FE, and it’s not my job to convince you guys why it’s a bad idea to download pirated material, and it’s a bad idea to even appear that we condone it by not saying anything.\

JEDIT:

3. No discussions regarding traditional “warez”, such as bootlegs of current or recent theatrical releases, screeners, pre-retail/retail DVDs, and cracked computer software.

4. No direct links to media downloads of copyrighted materials (VOBs, WMV, QuickTime, torrent files, NZB files, ED2K links, etc.) with the exception of short clips to demonstrate quality or content. No direct links to pages containing such files.

5. The source of all materials used in fan edits and preservation efforts must be cited, including retail releases, laserdisc transfers, special features, menus, covers, and artwork.

Source: http://originaltrilogy.com/announcement/Fan-edit-preservation-forum-rules-and-FAQ/id/5950

As for the training thing. We don’t really see training from a martial arts perspective in any film.
You see the kids and Luke playing dangerous swingball with laserswords, we see Luke running around with Yoda lecturing to him and we see Yoda guiding a rock levitation exercise. The Cave etc
But the Force abilities these characters have seem to come naturally.
Luke can pull the saber from the snow without being trained by Ben. Luke is shown the concept of using his Jedi foresight to pop the first Death Star but he doesn’t get actual targeting lessons.
Maybe the training is more about controlling the path to expanding one’s natural expansion of powers.
Palpatine and Qui-Gom offered new ‘training’ to fully trained Jedi. So maybe it’s sort of like anger management with magic rather than actual Kung Fu lessons. In this case both Rey and Ren may be strong enough to be able to do these tricks naturally but lack sufficient guidance to focus and control their abilities using their emotions (either by controlling them or indulging them).

I’m reposting this here because it will be fun watching some of you try to explain it away or insist it’s not the same thing.

Lord Haseo said:

RicOlie_2 said:

It isn’t the existence of those that bothers me, it’s the number and density of them at the beginning of TFA that I disliked. Had they been more spread out, and/or with a couple of them feeling less coincidental, it would have been far better.

STAR WARS had a lot of plot conveniences

1. R2 and C3P0 happen to land somewhere conveniently on the side of the planet where Luke is

2. Then later when they’re separated they somehow conveniently meet up on the sandcrawler so they can be sold to Owen and Beru

3. Then the other Astromech poops out conveniently so that R2 can be purchased

4. Then Luke somehow conveniently finds part of Leia’s message while cleaning R2

and this doesn’t necessarily bother me because it’s just one of those things that has always been in Star Wars.

imperialscum said:

TV’s Frink said:

This failed to address the point in what you quoted.

I did address it by explaining that his point is a very bad one. If they actually intended to establish a weak villain with the duels, then the duels were not only utterly useless, but were even damaging to the story/characters.

There were two points in that post, you ignored the second one about Luke being lucky.

I didn`t like that we do not get any details about the status of the galaxy…

What is the new Republic, is it the new legitimate government? So why is there a need for an resistance if you are teamed up with the government anyway… And resisting what?
Is there no Republic military?
I don’t want to much detail but some Infos to not get lost.
It felt as if they wanted to establish that the status quo is the same as in the ot … In the laziest way possible.

Also I think that the last act is a littlebit to cluttered and fast passed, it seemed confusing and forced that way.
5 more minutes of background, meaning and explanation could have worked wonders here.
For example the awakening of r2 seemed like the strangest coincidence ever for me. When a short shot of ray entering the room or something could have cleared things up without slowing the movie down.

The last thing I realy didn’t like was the spacemonster scene on hans ship, I got an mib2 vibe from that and it felt unnecessary like they just wanted to show of the cool space monsters but had no idea how to fit them in the movie.

Overall I am pretty happy with the movie I think it is a good bridge from old to new but I hope the following episodes will be more unique and creative.

TV’s Frink said:

I’m reposting this here because it will be fun watching some of you try to explain it away or insist it’s not the same thing.

Lord Haseo said:

RicOlie_2 said:

It isn’t the existence of those that bothers me, it’s the number and density of them at the beginning of TFA that I disliked. Had they been more spread out, and/or with a couple of them feeling less coincidental, it would have been far better.

STAR WARS had a lot of plot conveniences

1. R2 and C3P0 happen to land somewhere conveniently on the side of the planet where Luke is

R2 piloted the escape pod to the location Leia told him to go. The escape pod was navigable, unlike the TIE fighter Poe and Finn were in in TFA, where the TIE fighter was shot and crash landed on Jakku.

2. Then later when they’re separated they somehow conveniently meet up on the sandcrawler so they can be sold to Owen and Beru.

They didn’t conveniently “meet up.” The Jawas are scavengers. It’s what they do. All day long. Considering how slow C3PO walks and the rocky terrain, the two droids were not far apart. Not a stretch at all, considering how close the droids were to each other and considering the fact that C3PO actually called the Sandcrawler to him. Moreover this is an inconsequential convenience, like the one below. More storytelling than plot. The droids didn’t have to separate. That was just story telling.

3. Then the other Astromech poops out conveniently so that R2 can be purchased

An inconsequential convenience, like the one above. More part of the story than the plot. The “convenience” could be quickly undone by the director or script writer simply telling the actor to buy R2 and not the red droid first and you wind up with the same result.

4. Then Luke somehow conveniently finds part of Leia’s message while cleaning R2

Did this person actually watch ANH? R2 deliberately showed Luke an innocuous piece of the message to trick Luke into removing the restraining bolt from R2 so R2 could escape uncle Owen’s farm and continue his mission.

and this doesn’t necessarily bother me because it’s just one of those things that has always been in Star Wars.

Guys, there is a difference between TFA and ANH, as far as the quality of the stories and plot are concerned. But to see the difference, you have to have an earnest, open mind and just allow the evidence to take you wherever it leads.

Smoking Lizard said:

TV’s Frink said:

I’m reposting this here because it will be fun watching some of you try to explain it away or insist it’s not the same thing.

Lord Haseo said:

RicOlie_2 said:

It isn’t the existence of those that bothers me, it’s the number and density of them at the beginning of TFA that I disliked. Had they been more spread out, and/or with a couple of them feeling less coincidental, it would have been far better.

STAR WARS had a lot of plot conveniences

1. R2 and C3P0 happen to land somewhere conveniently on the side of the planet where Luke is

R2 piloted the escape pod to the location Leia told him to go. The escape pod was navigable, unlike the TIE fighter Poe and Finn were in in TFA

That was never established in the film. Nice rationalization though.

2. Then later when they’re separated they somehow conveniently meet up on the sandcrawler so they can be sold to Owen and Beru.

They didn’t conveniently “meet up.” The Jawas are scavengers. It’s what they do. All day long. Considering how slow C3PO walks and the rocky terrain, the two droids were not far apart. Not a stretch at all, considering how close the droids were to each other and considering the fact that C3PO actually called the Sandcrawler to him. Moreover this is an inconsequential convenience, like the one below. More storytelling than plot. The droids didn’t have to separate. That was just story telling.

Those aren’t the only Jawa’s on the planet that scavenge. The fact that parallel opposite directions and still end up on the SAME sandcrawler is convnient. There’s no way around that.

3. Then the other Astromech poops out conveniently so that R2 can be purchased

An inconsequential convenience, like the one above. More part of the story than the plot. The “convenience” could be quickly undone by the director or script writer simply telling the actor to buy R2 and not the red droid first and you wind up with the same result.

No, unlike the other one this one can be easily undone which can’t be said about the other “inconsequential convenience”. Also I wouldn’t exactly call them inconsequential because those are things that push the plot forward.

4. Then Luke somehow conveniently finds part of Leia’s message while cleaning R2

Did this person actually watch ANH? R2 deliberately showed Luke an innocuous piece of the message to trick Luke into removing the restraining bolt from R2 so R2 could escape uncle Owen’s farm and continue his mission.

You got me on this but droids shouldn’t even be capable of shit like that

Also seeing as how you said

[Smoking Lizard said:]
So in 30 years Luke trained ZERO new Jedis? Ren somehow killed them ALL?!

and

[Smoking Lizard said:]
So Kylo Ren is Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader’s grandson? Kylo Ren, in private, “prays” to his grandfather to “show him the way” to resist the pull of the light side of the Force. Um, hello? Anakin Skywalker is probably the WORST person to ask for advice on how to resist the light side?

I’d be weary of calling anyone out on comprehending the film.

Guys, there is a difference between TFA and ANH, as far as the quality of the stories and plot are concerned.

We all know STAR WARS is the superior film on paper, but it still not prefect and suffers from some of the same issues TFA has.

Lord Haseo said:

1. R2 and C3P0 happen to land somewhere conveniently on the side of the planet where Luke is

R2 piloted the escape pod to the location Leia told him to go. The escape pod was navigable, unlike the TIE fighter Poe and Finn were in in TFA

That was never established in the film. Nice rationalization though.

I don’t want to sound argumentative, but basic inference is permitted in any movie. It’s perfectly logical that the escape pod should be able to be steered. Even the life boats on the Titanic could be steered. Life rafts can be steered. Considering an escape pod on a space ship would take its passengers into deep space, it only makes sense that someone should be able to steer it.

I know, I know – but R2 didn’t say out loud, “I’m piloting the escape pod!”, so in your mind the idea of a steerable escape pod is not allowed.

2. Then later when they’re separated they somehow conveniently meet up on the sandcrawler so they can be sold to Owen and Beru.

They didn’t conveniently “meet up.” The Jawas are scavengers. It’s what they do. All day long. Considering how slow C3PO walks and the rocky terrain, the two droids were not far apart. Not a stretch at all, considering how close the droids were to each other and considering the fact that C3PO actually called the Sandcrawler to him. Moreover this is an inconsequential convenience, like the one below. More storytelling than plot. The droids didn’t have to separate. That was just story telling.

Those aren’t the only Jawa’s on the planet that scavenge. The fact that parallel opposite directions and still end up on the SAME sandcrawler is convnient. There’s no way around that.

No way around it? I already explained it. Considering the fact the C3PO literally walks at a pace of about 2 miles per hour, he and R2 were likely at most 4 or 5 miles apart. So the Jawas are out, looking for scrap, and C3PO sees them in the distance and calls out to them. It’s the Jawas’ lucky day. After they pick up C3PO, they continue their route and, as luck would have it, they find R2, who wasn’t that far away. Damn, dude, that’s not that hard to imagine.

Also I wouldn’t exactly call them inconsequential because those are things that push the plot forward.

No, they don’t. These two story elements do not push the plot forward at all. They are not necessary to push the plot along. Think about it: In the movie, the droids part ways, then get captured separately by the same Jawas. The other way Lucas could have done this is just not have the droids part ways and then they get caught together. The end result is the same – they’re in the same Sandcrawler. So yes, the “convenience” is inconsequential.

Also seeing as how you said

[Smoking Lizard said:]
So in 30 years Luke trained ZERO new Jedis? Ren somehow killed them ALL?!

and

[Smoking Lizard said:]
So Kylo Ren is Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader’s grandson? Kylo Ren, in private, “prays” to his grandfather to “show him the way” to resist the pull of the light side of the Force. Um, hello? Anakin Skywalker is probably the WORST person to ask for advice on how to resist the light side?

I’d be weary of calling anyone out on comprehending the film.

First, you did mean “wary,” right?

Second, can you explain to me how these two observations of mine somehow suggest that I did not comprehend TFA? Because I see it the other way around – that because I comprehended TFA, I was able to make these observations.

But I could be wrong. Maybe you have something else in mind? Maybe there was something I missed? Please explain. I’m interested in reading you thoughts on this, as it’s an interesting element of TFA that would probably be fun to discuss.

Guys, there is a difference between TFA and ANH, as far as the quality of the stories and plot are concerned.

We all know STAR WARS is the superior film on paper, but it still not prefect and suffers from some of the same issues TFA has.

Not by a long shot. Are there moments in ANH where you have to give Lucas a pass? Sure. Of course. But those are nickels and dimes compared to the absurdities of TFA.