What didn't you like about TFA? SPOILERS — Page 12

Ryan McAvoy said:

It’s really difficult to feel “outraged” when you’ve been force-fed excrement for 18 years and somebody suddenly takes it away and gives you a juicy cheeseburger. Sure it’s maybe not quite the prime steak you remember eating back before the enforced sh*t eating began, but you sure feel grateful nonetheless.

I see your point. That is a very good point. I suppose that’s where I differ from most fans – most fans, I think, see TFA being a step up from the PT, whereas I see it as being just as bad.

Doggone it. Double post.

I guess Rey’s journey means nothing to you. “Stupid” is debatable, but “pointless” it most certainly is not.

I seriously can understand not liking TFA. But putting it equal or below the PT is silly.

To take your logic on my first point and apply it to my second, you could say the same thing about the OT compared to the PT.

But your logic on my first point doesn’t make any sense. The lightsaber fight is the culmination of her Act I journey, not some trivial little minor bit of nonsense.

That_OT_Ruler said:

TV’s Frink said:
Hell yes. Thank god it was a good movie.

That’s your own fucking opinion. Jesus, you are so butthurt that people don’t like the movie that you have to write this 5 page long rebuttal and then state it was a good movie.

How about you enjoy the movie and let other people who don’t enjoy it… not enjoy it? You sound like a social justice worker in this thread, and I’ve seen you in other threads doing the same thing.

Also, the argument “It’s just a movie”, is not an argument. How about you be quiet and leave this thread. This is a “What didn’t you like about it?” thread.

I just noticed this, and I know it is off topic, but my lack of respect for you just increased.

originaltrilogy.com/post/id/892696

Pirates like you give legitimate faneditors a bad name. I wonder if you even paid to see this in theaters.

That_OT_Ruler said:

A lot of his points though make very much serious.

Sure…

Smoking Lizard said:
Von Sydow’s character required someone to travel IN PERSON to Jakku to receive the map, rather than just transmit it encrypted to Leia.

Smoking Lizard said:
Instead of covertly sending an intelligence officer under deep cover to retrieve the map, Leia sends a pilot. In uniform. In an X-Wing.

Smoking Lizard said:
The blaster bolt suspended midflight and hanging in the air until Ren “coolly” released it.

Smoking Lizard said:
Kylo Ren and the First Order round up the innocent villagers and are setting the village on fire. When Kylo comes to question Poe, Poe deems it appropriate to crack jokes at Ren. No, Poe, don’t, you know, maybe BEG for mercy for the villagers and insist that they’re innocent. Nah. Crack jokes instead.

Smoking Lizard said:
OK, so we escape. Suddenly the new and improved First Order TIE fighters are two seaters

Smoking Lizard said:
The TIE fighter gets shot and then crash lands on Jakku. CONVENIENTLY close to Rey’s settlement.

Smoking Lizard said:
The TIE fighter CONVENIENTLY gets eaten up by the desert. Because, yeah, the desert eats stuff all the time…
…But there’s other crashed junk all over the place that hasn’t been swallowed up by the desert

Smoking Lizard said:
Finn runs to the settlement, where he conveniently bumps into Rey who conveniently has found BB-8

Smoking Lizard said:
So BB-8 tells Rey that that random dude is wearing my master’s jacket – or, well, a jacket that looks just like my master’s jacket. So Rey runs over and smashes him in the face with a blunt weapon

Smoking Lizard said:
Hey! Now we’re friends!

Smoking Lizard said:
How did you learn to fly the Millenium Falcon? I found a flight simulator! And the flight simulator taught me how to fly that type of craft!

Smoking Lizard said:
OK, we’re in space now! We ditched the First Order somehow…but oh no! We’re captured…by Han Solo…
…Who just so happened to be in the neighborhood, actively looking for the Millenium Falcon…at the age of 70 something years old. Sure he was a general once who led the Rebellion to maybe the greatest victory in the history of the galaxy, but now, at the age of 70, he’s back to being a smuggler

Smoking Lizard said:
Also gotta love that crawling across the table and switching the lenses in the goggles to amp up the magnification or whatever. Yeah, that wasn’t contrived

Smoking Lizard said:
Oh, hey! By the way, I’m Maz and I somehow have Luke Skywalker’s lighsaber in a wooden box downstairs in my dungeon! How did I get it, you ask? Oh, that’s a story for another time (TRANSLATION: The writers don’t know yet, either).

Smoking Lizard said:
Somehow Rey just stumbles on the box with the lightsaber. I know, I know – the Force. Uh huh

Smoking Lizard said:
So Rey is captured. She hasn’t figured out that she can already use the Force yet. Give it about 10 minutes and she’ll have it figured out.

Smoking Lizard said:
So Ren’s secret darkest fear is that he will never be as powerful as Darth Vader? Puh-lease.

I had to take a break after reading this one.

Smoking Lizard said:
Han and Leia repeatedly refer to Ren stiltedly as “our son” and not simply his name

Smoking Lizard said:
Leia’s stilted dialog: “It was Snoke who seduced our son to the Dark Side of the Force.” Ugh

Smoking Lizard said:
And the command center of the First Order doesn’t look very military

Smoking Lizard said:
Temper tantrums make someone a bad guy! Get bad news? Tear sht up with your stupid lightsaber! A key prisoner escaped? Tear sht up with your stupid lightsaber!

Smoking Lizard said:
Oh, hey, now we’re going to crash. No, not really. We’ll just skid along the snowy surface. And…wait for it…wait for it! Yep! Here comes a cliff! And wait for it…wait for it…errrt! We stopped just at the edge of the cliff! Never saw that before!

Smoking Lizard said:
We have X-Wing pilots who don’t look like military pilots. The female pilot especially…not because she’s female, but because she carries herself as a college student enjoying a theme park ride

Smoking Lizard said:
Rey kills Han. Thank God. Not because it was a good story element, but because at least it spares us from having to see an 80 year old Han Solo in the future

Another break ensued after reading this

Smoking Lizard said:
We have C3PO literally calling play-by-play during the battle!

Smoking Lizard said:
And even better! Somehow all the main characters somehow manage to escape the planet blowing up! Sure is a good thing the First Order was somehow able to pick up Ren from the surface and get him off the planet before the planet blew up! How wonderfully convenient!

Smoking Lizard said:
Oh, by the way, Ren got his butt kicked by Rey…who just suddenly, out of nowhere, learned how to use the Force and a lightsaber. How convenient!

I’m only labeling this as a nitpick because there are other factors that people seem to willfully neglect when discussing Kylo losing to Rey

Smoking Lizard said:
Oh! And why didn’t Rey just kill him?! Because a rift in the planet formed just at the right second! Phew! That was CLOSE! We almost lost our super “cool” villain!

Smoking Lizard said:
We land on a planet……and bring Luke his lightsaber.

That_OT_Ruler said:
The definition of nitpicking for one person might be very different from someone else’s.

I’m pretty sure what Smoking Lizard threw into that post can be called nitpicking by anyone. Things like Tie fighters having two seats doesn’t effect anything in the slightest so passing that stuff off as admissible problems just shows how little of an argument there is for TFA being bad.

That_OT_Ruler said:
as the movie left a lot of questions unanswered.

It did but the things that need to be explained will most likely be explained in the sequels or in novels/comic books (where they should be explained) and the rest of the stuff doesn’t warrant explanation.

That_OT_Ruler said:
I think we can all agree though, it is a straight-forward fact at this point, regardless of opinion, the story of the movie is most definitely a carbon copy of A New Hope.

If you’re boiling down the films to their barest essentials then they’re pretty similar but they’re totally different films if you don’t omit details.

imperialscum said:

TV’s Frink said:

I guess Rey’s journey means nothing to you.

If you take this type argument seriously then you could apply it to every little stupidity and nonsense as surely it is part of some “character’s journey”.

I seriously can understand not liking TFA. But putting it equal or below the PT is silly.

I generally like TFA and found it enjoyable… however some aspects are worse than PT. That much I have to be honest.

Such as? Also say something instead of “the lightsaber duels”

SpilkaBilka said:

You keep saying this, but WHY is it absurd? Is it so unreasonable to believe that it was so important for the map to not fall into the hands of the enemy, that they decided to use a courier to retrieve that information? Like, maybe the FO could intercept the transmission and then they’d be able to find and kill Luke? Maybe Max von Sydow doesn’t have the capability/expertise to send encrypted transmissions to the Resistance?

Right. I don’t think you understand my point, and that’s my fault for not being more clear. Allow me illustrate with an example:

1. There is some piece of intelligence information President Obama needs. The information is being held by someone in, say, wherever, let’s say Iraq, just for the sake of the discussion.

2. How do you get the information? Well, you first consider some sort of encrypted electronic transmission on a secure channel. But let’s suppose for the sake of the discussion that that’s not possible, for whatever reason.

3. President Obama does not want our enemies to find out we’re coming to get this information, or, for that matter, that the guy in Iraq even has it.

4. So now President Obama needs to send someone to retrieve the information. So…would he send his best F-16 fighter pilot in an F-16, wearing an American F-16 flight suit?!? No! Of course not! He’d send some intelligence operative under deep cover. Now granted, fine, I get that maybe Poe changed his clothes before going to Von Sydow…but him flying there in an X-Wing alone is silly. An X-Wing would stick out like a sore thumb. Instead, someone would be quietly sent, someone totally unassuming and average looking, probably arriving on a standard commercial flight. He’d quietly meet with the guy in Iraq in some innocuous place like a bar or bowling alley, receive the information on the sly, and then fly back to Washington on a commercial flight. The enemy would never even know that a courier had been sent and the information had already changed hands and arrived back in Washington.

“The Defense Courier Service (DCS) is established under the United States Transportation Command (USTRANSCOM), and is a global courier network for the expeditious, cost-effective, and secure distribution of highly classified and sensitive material.”

Just FYI: I’ve worked for the Department of Defense for the past 25 years. Trust me, the way I described above is the way it would work. DoD does not dispatch DCS to receive intelligence from secret operatives in foreign locations. That’s not the way it works.

I worked with Ric Olie and that’s not how it worked on Naboo.

Post Praetorian said:

imperialscum said:

The two lightsabre duels at the end were just stupid. They were there just for the sake of film having a lightsabre duel. And if they really had to make it like this, at least the dark side guy should kick both of their asses. And please spare your time, I really don’t want to hear dumb arguments such as: “but she practised with pole stick” or “he practised with stun baton”.

Ren was a poor villain

I wouldn’t go far but I’m sure the point of the scene is to show that Kylo isn’t as powerful as his walk makes him out to be.

Rey was simply lucky?

Pretty much just like Luke blowing up the Death Star. Both things were pretty much impossible but they both happened because it needed to be established that our main characters are uber special.

imperialscum said:

That is pretty much the opposite as it should be. Establishing a weak villain is a bullet in a knee for a film. If he kicked their asses and “sent” them back home training, it would at least add some motive to the story/characters.

Very well put. I’m reminded of a great quote by Alfred Hitchcock: “The more successful the villain, the more successful the picture.”

But in fairness, I suppose that rule doesn’t apply to Star Wars. Star Wars has established that pretty much anything with the Star Wars logo on it will make money.

SilverWook said:

Egad, now I want to invoke the bunny! 😉

Palpy says DO IT!

Post Praetorian said:

imperialscum said:

Smoking Lizard said:
most fans, I think, see TFA being a step up from the PT, whereas I see it as being just as bad.

In some aspects it is worse than PT. The only thing that saves it is that it is actually fun (no annoying whiny main character).

For example, the two duels at the end are utterly pointless (on top of being stupid). Their sole purpose is for the film to have a lightsabre duel. I wonder where are those fans now who complain about Ewoks being a marketing move. At least Ewoks serve an important part of the story.

Agreed…this is precisely how I feel as well…

C’mon PP, I know you’re better than this. Again, you can argue the fight is stupid, but you can’t argue it’s pointless.

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

Post Praetorian said:

imperialscum said:

The two lightsabre duels at the end were just stupid. They were there just for the sake of film having a lightsabre duel. And if they really had to make it like this, at least the dark side guy should kick both of their asses. And please spare your time, I really don’t want to hear dumb arguments such as: “but she practised with pole stick” or “he practised with stun baton”.

Ren was a poor villain

I wouldn’t go far but I’m sure the point of the scene is to show that Kylo isn’t as powerful as his walk makes him out to be.

Rey was simply lucky?

Pretty much just like Luke blowing up the Death Star. Both things were pretty much impossible but they both happened because it needed to be established that our main characters are uber special.

That is pretty much the opposite as it should be. Establishing a weak villain is a bullet in a knee for a film. If he kicked their asses and “sent” them back home training, it would at least add some motive to the story/characters.

This failed to address the point in what you quoted.