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Info: The Matrix - with original theatrical color timing? — Page 8

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Dowloaded the Restored Theatrical Colors Edition and I'm very pleased with the result. Too bad some scenes are beyond colour correction due to excessive tampering that you had to use upscaled DVD shots to compensate.

Any plans to release an improved version or will we have to make do with this? The only way I see this happening is if you get ahold of 35mm film prints in fairly good condition, scan the parts where you had to use the DVD and integrate them with the rest of the movie, but it could be this project has run its course and this is as far as we're getting.

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Sorry to bump this old topic but… some of you guys should check the Spleen 😉

“English, motherf***er! Do you speak it!?”

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My PC can’t handle a file of this sort. Couls someone upload a 720p version?

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I took the advice to check the 'spleen, and what I found there is extremely interesting. I’m amazed hardly anyone here is talking about it: anyone even slightly interested in colour timing should download this immediately. The difference between the home video releases and the 35mm version of The Matrix is STAGGERING.

I’m still trying to wrap my head around what this looks like, and why the difference is so drastic. The only explanation that makes any sense to me is that this represents a very early version, and that the filmmakers must have changed their minds about its appearance before much time had passed. Other prints probably did have the familiar green that everyone remembers (albeit more subtle than the video releases have made it); but this one, at least, isn’t even close to that. It really has to be seen to be believed.

Check out various screenshots here: http://imgur.com/a/LcuQo

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Do you really think any of the release prints had the green color timing? I thought the consensus was that it was a change made to DVDs and later. Perhaps if new prints were struck when the second film was being released, they would have the green timing?

Just watched the film. Really great transfer. It’s sad that the trameline scratches are present from start to finish (someone owned the print who presumably didn’t know what they were doing?), but the damage aside from those lines is surprisingly minimal and it plays great as a grindhouse type print.

As for the color, I agree with the notion that it’s generally absurd to claim to have great memory of the color of a film from a viewing 16 years ago (let alone 38 years). Still, I can say that, years ago, the green timing definitely felt brand new watching the second film. I remember thinking that this is a new look that is consistent with the video game, the animatrix, and not the first film. I don’t really recall all the scenes that are so very orange and blue in The Matrix, but I don’t think the scan is wrong (I wasn’t trained to recognize Orange and Blue/Teal the way I am now, either). It is of course worth noting that the experience of this release is probably quite different when projected. I turned down the color saturation by a few clicks and found the result a bit more pleasant.

The strongly yellow colored scenes have generated quite a bit of discussion already. It’s hard to imagine that it’s a fault of the scan, as it is scene dependent (some are blue heavy, others yellow, others natural) and consistent across each reel. Again, it looks perhaps a bit better with reduced saturation. The memory cheats, of course, but mine thinks it was perhaps a little more heterogeneous. But I trust the print and the scan, and it makes for an interesting record. I do wonder what the print-to-print variation is like, or if (as h_h suggests), there were actually ones struck with adjusted timing. What about bootleg dupes? Were those even a thing still in 1999? Someone on spleen posted a shot of a 35mm print that did indeed look different in one of the yellow scenes. Time will tell, I suppose.

Great release, so thanks for all involved.

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fmalover said:

My PC can’t handle a file of this sort. Couls someone upload a 720p version?

Try converting with Ripbot264, Vidcoder, or Handbrake.

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hairy_hen said:

I took the advice to check the 'spleen, and what I found there is extremely interesting. I’m amazed hardly anyone here is talking about it: anyone even slightly interested in colour timing should download this immediately. The difference between the home video releases and the 35mm version of The Matrix is STAGGERING.

I dunno, I saw it and shrugged. To me it looks like something very photochemically bad happened with those prints–or at least a reel or two of them–and they ended up with an extreme orange tint. Either that or something equally bad happened during scanning, but I tend to think that’s less likely. Maybe with some color-correction, we can get some idea what the film originally looked like, but man, as it stands right now, that is so unbelievably orange I would have remembered if it looked like that, and it didn’t. Color specifics are hard to remember, but unrealistic blanket hues are not. Everyone remembers how Do the Right Thing was gold-tinted, and this is way more out of whack than that.

I don’t know enough about print chemistry to say how this could have happened, but I’m guessing some cut-rate duplication facility or a tragic accident at the Tang factory.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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Catbus is right. THe exact shade of green might be hard to remember, but we would remember colors like that.
Considering the black levels are crushed and the light areas are blown out, there are a lot of reasons to believe the film transfer and/or source are sketchy.

Seriously, this isn’t complicated. No one remember the DVD looking wrong when they saw it and that wasn’t that long after the movie came out.
Also, trailers are rarely restored or retimed unless they are cutting a re-release trailer… and the DVD is pretty damn similar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKQi3bBA1y8

It make for a pretty solid reference.

Dr. M

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Reminds me of seeing Magic Mike at the theatre (though it might also be yellow on home video).

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Okay, so I watched the 35mm version from the Spleen, and a guy there gave this link to another LPP: http://www.angelfire.com/or/raylearchive/#35

When I see this : http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/329851Trinity1.jpg
Then this other LPP : http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/545850Trinity2.jpg
And finally the Blu-ray : http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/292306Trinity3.jpg

I feel compelled to aknowledge that the Blu-ray, at least for this shot, looks quite right compared to the other LPP.

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Ok first, the “scratched print” is not an LPP and second, the print on Angelfire is probably a more recent re-release. That’s why it matches the BD colours so well. I know they said the print is an original from 1999 but I don’t take their words for granted.

“English, motherf***er! Do you speak it!?”

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ilovewaterslides said:

Ok first, the “scratched print” is not an LPP

According to the uploader on spleen, it is.

I don’t see any reason to discredit the person with a webpage that looks like it’s from 1999. 😃 Who knows what they have or what it really looks like when scanned properly. One of their images looks neutral. One looks greenish in their imaging attempt, but it doesn’t mean the film has the blanket green timing of the later releases

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The print does seem overly orange, but who knows if that’s intentional or not.

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Beber said:

Okay, so I watched the 35mm version from the Spleen, and a guy there gave this link to another LPP: http://www.angelfire.com/or/raylearchive/#35

When I see this : http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/329851Trinity1.jpg
Then this other LPP : http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/545850Trinity2.jpg
And finally the Blu-ray : http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/292306Trinity3.jpg

I feel compelled to aknowledge that the Blu-ray, at least for this shot, looks quite right compared to the other LPP.

And just so you have it, here’s the '99 DVD: http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/307400m99.jpg The DVD was said to have more green than the Laserdisc, and we can see it has less than the BD and that second print, but looks no where near the same as the scratched print.

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The timing is definitely different there.

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Wazzles said:

The timing is definitely different there.

Depends on what you mean by “timing”. The difference is only in saturation, AFAICT, so I’d say they are clearly from the same master, just processed differently. Home video releases were often badly desaturated like those Laserdisc examples, back in the day.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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Oh yeah, I’m definitely not trying to imply it’s a different master, just different color on the same master.

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Doctor M said:

Also, trailers are rarely restored or retimed unless they are cutting a re-release trailer… and the DVD is pretty damn similar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKQi3bBA1y8

It make for a pretty solid reference.

Maybe it’s just me, but to me it looks like every scene in the trailer has the same color timing going on. I don’t notice any difference between inside or outside of the Matrix.

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Indeed. The color timing is unfinished in the trailers.

“English, motherf***er! Do you speak it!?”

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[Redacted]

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

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An update has been posted in the myspleen comments section. It seems the color was indeed off and a corrected version will be released in the future.

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towne32 said:

An update has been posted in the myspleen comments section. It seems the color was indeed off and a corrected version will be released in the future.

Man, and those guys were defending their transfer hard.

[quote]Because of the amount of people complaining about some of the scenes being too yellow, and the Youtube clip posted by one of the users we started wondering if the color is right ourselves. Unfortunately, it was revealed that there has been a huge misunderstanding between the person who did the scan and the one working on color correction. I won’t get into details, but a whole movie color grading is wrong and does not reflect the look of the print.

Some of the scenes need minor corrections (these are most likely the ones that made me think the whole scan is right, I haven’t screened the entire print), but others, like the dojo fight or Neo’s interrogation are completely wrong. The movie will get a shot by shot color correction in the next months, if you wish to watch a theatrically accurate version of The Matrix, please wait for the new version (it will be labeled v1.5).[/quote]

Dr. M

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Doctor M said:

towne32 said:

An update has been posted in the myspleen comments section. It seems the color was indeed off and a corrected version will be released in the future.

Man, and those guys were defending their transfer hard.

[quote]Because of the amount of people complaining about some of the scenes being too yellow, and the Youtube clip posted by one of the users we started wondering if the color is right ourselves. Unfortunately, it was revealed that there has been a huge misunderstanding between the person who did the scan and the one working on color correction. I won’t get into details, but a whole movie color grading is wrong and does not reflect the look of the print.

Some of the scenes need minor corrections (these are most likely the ones that made me think the whole scan is right, I haven’t screened the entire print), but others, like the dojo fight or Neo’s interrogation are completely wrong. The movie will get a shot by shot color correction in the next months, if you wish to watch a theatrically accurate version of The Matrix, please wait for the new version (it will be labeled v1.5).[/quote]
(Sorry, but I have no idea how to format text on this site any more. Man it blows.)

Dr. M

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Doctor M said:
Man it blows.

big time

You really only need to hang mean bastards,
but mean bastards you need to hang.

John ‘The Hangman’ Ruth