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Censorship of the original films — Page 4

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Okay, SO after endless days of this illuminating.... nah, needless and paedomorphic debate*

LET'S PLEASE agree,

1st - ANY CHANGES to the original films - BE IT color correction, gamma correction or whatever - VOIDS it from being called the ORIGINAL TRILOGY as they are NO longer the "Original UNALTERED Version" - SO - Only straight untouched Laserdisc and VHS transfers can be considered a part of the "ORIGINAL TRILOGY PRESERVATION" - PERIOD

2nd - ANY CHANGES made to the films (again... color correction, aspect ratio change, cut and paste, new effects or ANY CHANGE) is considered an ALTERATION ~ AND will now be called EDITS - So to reiterate, IF you add, correct or alter in ANY way the ORIGINAL laserdisc/VHS transfer it is NOT the Original Trilogy... But YOUR Edit (just like MagnoliaFan and the Phantom Editor) PERIOD

- SO let's PLEASE move beyond ANY changes made by Lucas, MagnoliaFan, MeBeJedi, Mverta or any other aspiring editors in THEIR collective endeavors.

END of story.


*= euphemism




"Film is history. With every foot of film that is lost, we lose a link to our culture, to the world around us, to each other, and to ourselves."
- Martin Scorsese,
Filmmaker and member of the NFPF Board of Directors

“My skill are no longer as Mad as the once were” RiK

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Zion, it seems we are on the same side here with a few minor differences. Those being that you think it is still okay to make your altered work, so long as it's labelled as so. I would say that's good enough, and you have satisfied my complaints against you. I will explain this, by again comparing it to lying:

You no longer say it is your right to lie. But you do say you will continue to lie - but you agree to tell people when you do lie. This negates the negative effect.

MBJ, I believe in personal rights, yes. Not capitalistic rights. You've got the correct definition of capitalism, if you can't work out what it means in real life then that's not my problem. I will give you a simple explanation:

  • my personal rights should come before all other's rights (that effect me)
    -and-
  • their personal rights should come before all my rights that effect them.

    Or if you want the lying version. It is your right to expect truth and honesty from me. It is not my right to lie to you.
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    Originally posted by: consumer_x
    It should be pointed out that if you reside within North America, be it USA or Canada, you do have a legal right to edit any film copy in your possession. I am unsure about other nations in the World, but in at least these two, you are safe to edit what you please with your mass-produced reproduction.
    I know a lot about Australian law, and unfortunately less about American and Canadian law. But I assure you that it is a breech of copyright to edit copyrighted works under American law.
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    "You've got the correct definition of capitalism, if you can't work out what it means in real life then that's not my problem."

    Actually, it is your problem. You seem to keep singleling me out as the only person who disagrees with your use of the word, despite the fact that every other person in this thread has disagreed with you. Talk to them, not to me.

    <span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
    <span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

    <span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
    <span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

    <span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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    Moved from the MeBeJedi forum to get that room back on topic and yet to still weigh in with that room.

    Originally posted by: DanielB

    ADigitalMan, to answer your question. Do people look at original art for any particular reason? Why do people look at picassos rather than MY IMPROVED "picasso paintings"? Are you telling me, if Picasso painted a dull looking picture, and I made it look better you would prefer to look at my version of it rather than picasso's original?

    I have three points to make, then I'm done with this issue:

    1) DanielB, you have no problem using the forum's editing function to revise/fix your thoughts after they've been published. Don't cast stones in your house of glass.

    2) How many Picassos do you own? How many Picassos have you seen in person? Do you not think that looking at a Picasso in a book hasn't had some form of alteration to make it appropriately presentable in the medium in which you've viewed it? If there is no point in viewing a Picasso except as intended by Picasso himself, then one should ONLY view the version hanging in the gallery, and never own a lithograph, a book, or a photo, because ALL OF THESE CONTAIN ALTERATIONS FROM THE ARTIST'S ORIGINAL. It's inescapable.

    3) Getting back to Star Wars, I have nothing against preservists preserving the O-OT. But which O-OT gets to be preserved in your mind? Why is the DE LD worth preserving when it too contains revisions from the original theatrical version? You crap all over somebody correcting a frame that needs correcting, but yet you say nothing about the drastic changes from the 1977 theatrical version to the 1981 theatrical version, AND you accept the 1993 Laserdisc version which we know sports changes from the original.
    I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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    Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
    "You've got the correct definition of capitalism, if you can't work out what it means in real life then that's not my problem."

    Actually, it is your problem. You seem to keep singleling me out as the only person who disagrees with your use of the word, despite the fact that every other person in this thread has disagreed with you. Talk to them, not to me.
    Very well. For one's rights to be rights then one must share the same rights - and the same opportunity to access those rights - as the rest of the community. Capitalism is where you believe that your own rights should take precedent, and you extend them at the expense of other's rights.

    For instance, say that it is my right to expect others to be honest and truthful. My friend expects to enjoy that right, while also enjoying the right to lie to others whenever he sees fit. Since this negates other's right to honest and truthful conduct he is being capitalistic. Caring only about his capital firstly, see? Rather than evenly distributing rights. He says it is his right to lie to others. And he also says it is his right to expect others to be honest and truthful to him. So which is it?

    Let's say the first is his right. That is that it his right to expect others to be honest and truthful to him. If this is the case, then he doesn't mind invading their rights to extend his own (ie appending the right to lie whenever he likes). This is capitalistic because the rights of others have been reduced.
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    Originally posted by: Rikter
    here here
    LOL, can't believe missed that. Did you mean "hear hear"?
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    "LOL, can't believe missed that."
    "obviously ife I control a Picasso"

    "And no, censorship is not stoping something from being seen"

    "may I suggest youl simply observe."

    "then it is hypercritical of you to ask Lucas to do so."

    "Zion: Your augment is mute. You are asking Lucas to release his work unaltered. Let's - for augments sake"

    "Now I know how capatalistic America really is"

    "My point is just that he's grown up in a capatalistic society that have forced their views on him."

    Can you believe you missed all those (and that's just in this thread,) For someone who accuses me of going off on tangents, this is rather ironic (though apparently in character, considering your misuse of terminology and racial stereotypes.) As to me going off topic - I've addressed every point you brought up, and you've responded to less than 5% of my posts.

    Point being, you are clearly in no position to make fun of other's posts, so cut it out, okay?

    "This is capitalistic because the rights.." [SNIP]

    You keep talking about "capitalist America". Would you mind telling me when Australia became socialist?

    <span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
    <span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

    <span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
    <span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

    <span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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    Zion, it seems we are on the same side here with a few minor differences. Those being that you think it is still okay to make your altered work, so long as it's labelled as so. I would say that's good enough, and you have satisfied my complaints against you. I will explain this, by again comparing it to lying:

    You no longer say it is your right to lie. But you do say you will continue to lie - but you agree to tell people when you do lie. This negates the negative effect.

    I don't think we're on the same side here because the whole premise of our disagreement is over whether it is right to make changes to the films. But I guess we can agree to disagree.

    And that lying analogy is pretty bad and really doesn't fit the scenario. I could just as easily compare your argument to a nagging woman. But what good would that do?

    My Projects:
    [Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
    [X0 Project]
    [Backstroke of the West DVD]
    [ROTS Theatrical DVD]

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    Well Zion, yes we are because you agree that your edited version can't be called original no matter how small the edits. The only difference is you think that it's okay to make that version, and to a certain extent I do agree - so long as you recognize that it's a separate movie. For instance, Balance of the Force is NOT The Phantom Menace, or any edit of it - it's a separate movie that shares a lot of the same source material - but that's about it. So if you want to call your edited version "Zion's Star Wars" then - again, it isn't "Star Wars" or any edit thereof, it's simply another movie made largely from source material used in another movie.
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    Cool, I came back after a couple of days and everyone was agreed.

    MBJ: you're right I don't agree with Daniel except in the sense we want the same outcome. You could consider my viewpoint as representing "the film community" and his, well... who knows.

    Just for the record, arguments are moot not mute.
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    LOL, I missed that one. Well, it's nice to have you back. (Though I think these threads, as a whole, are dead.)

    <span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
    <span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

    <span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
    <span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

    <span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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    Originally posted by: DanielB

    Capitalism is where you believe that your own rights should take precedent, and you extend them at the expense of other's rights.

    Found on: www.dictionary.com

    cap·i·tal·ism
    n.
    An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development is proportionate to the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market.

    OR

    capitalism

    n : an economic system based on private ownership of capital [syn: capitalist economy] [ant: socialism]


    Seriously, stop it. You make my brain hurt.
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    Originally posted by: zion
    I don't think we're on the same side here because the whole premise of our disagreement is over whether it is right to make changes to the films.
    Originally posted by: DanielB
    Well Zion, yes we are because you agree that your edited version can't be called original no matter how small the edits.

    And when exactly were we arguing about this? The whole reason I oppose you on this issue is because you told me I have no right to make any changes at all to the films. Coming to the conclusion that I will not call my versions "originals" is called a compromise , i.e. a settlement of differences.

    My Projects:
    [Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
    [X0 Project]
    [Backstroke of the West DVD]
    [ROTS Theatrical DVD]

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    Forget about it, guys. He's in his own world (continent?) at this point. Let's let these threads drop.

    (I hope Laserman isn't offended by my little joke. )

    <span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
    <span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

    <span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
    <span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

    <span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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    MBJ, it seems to me that Daniel would have no complaints about your transfer if you just gave it a new name. May I suggest "The Fantastical Adventures of Luke Skywalker in Space" (U.S. title) or perhaps "The Rebels Stick It to the Capitalistic Empire" (Australian title).
    wolfhead
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    Originally posted by: wolfhead
    MBJ, it seems to me that Daniel would have no complaints about your transfer if you just gave it a new name. May I suggest "The Fantastical Adventures of Luke Skywalker in Space" (U.S. title) or perhaps "The Rebels Stick It to the Capitalistic Empire" (Australian title).


    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    “My skill are no longer as Mad as the once were” RiK

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    Originally posted by: wolfhead
    "The Rebels Stick It to the Capitalistic Empire" (Australian title).

    Classic.
    "I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them myself. They're pretty bad. I grieve over them during the long winter evenings."