Raiders of the Lost Ark - 35 mm regrade (a WIP) — Page 5

DrDre said:

Although I like your screenshots, the desert scenes are more orange, as they are on the bluray, where the 35 mm frames show it should be more yellow.

You've lost me there. I adjusted your regraded screencaps by removing a bit of blue to get rid of the slight cold feeling. Removing blue makes the image more yellow. I also adjusted the fleshtones to make them less red, not more red.

The only way the desert would look more orange with my adjustments would be if i'd added red, not removed it like I did in this case. As far as I can tell, the hue of the desert in my adjusted screencaps is closer to the hue of the desert in the 35mm screencaps than your regraded screencaps. Am I missing something?

kk650 said:

DrDre said:

Although I like your screenshots, the desert scenes are more orange, as they are on the bluray, where the 35 mm frames show it should be more yellow.

You've lost me there. I adjusted your regraded screencaps by removing a bit of blue to get rid of the slight cold feeling. Removing blue makes the image more yellow. I also adjusted the fleshtones to make them less red, not more red.

The only way the desert would look more orange with my adjustments would be if i'd added red, not removed it like I did in this case. As far as I can tell, the hue of the desert in my adjusted screencaps is closer to the hue of the desert in the 35mm screencaps than your regraded screencaps. Am I missing something?

I used one of one of your regrades to construct a color correction model. The basis for my argument is the result I got for this frame:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/147246

To my eyes your regrade is more orange. Analyzing the rock Indy is standing on reveals average RGB values for your regrade  [163.9701  118.4535   71.4151]. The same analysis for my regrade gives [158.8538  120.2475   74.3358]. So, more red and less green in your regrade, hence more orange. 

I also did the analysis on the original frame I used to make the model:

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/146976 

The average RGB values for the sand to the left of Indy in your regrade  [166.8212  129.9876   91.2088]. The same analysis for my regrade gives [161.0879  130.4117   96.0465]. So, again more red and less green in your regrade, hence more orange. The same analysis for the bluray gives [168.6993  129.3077   89.6064], so your regrade is almost as orange as the bluray.  

In this frame for the 35 mm the sky is also pretty blue, so reducing the blue results in a more gray sky like in the bluray.

Here are a few comparisons with the white balanced 35 mm trailer for Raiders:

Trailer:

Bluray:

Regrade:

Trailer:

Bluray:

Regrade:

Trailer:

Bluray:

Regrade:

Trailer:

Bluray:

Regrade:

Trailer:

Bluray:

Regrade:

I think these comparisons show the regrade is very consistent with the 35 mm trailer. 

The only sequence, which seems to have been graded totally differently in any home video release, than on the 35 mm trailer, is the bar brawl:

Trailer:

Bluary:

Regrade:

Trailer:

Bluray:

Regrade:

The regrade comes a bit closer, but these scenes seem to have been deliberately red shifted. So, this scene needs separate regrading.

Here's my first attempt at manually regrading this scene, since the trailer is not the best quality for color matching with the algorithm, but the colors are consistent with the 35 mm trailer (bluray top, regrade bottom):

DrDre said:

kk650 said:

DrDre said:

Although I like your screenshots, the desert scenes are more orange, as they are on the bluray, where the 35 mm frames show it should be more yellow.

You've lost me there. I adjusted your regraded screencaps by removing a bit of blue to get rid of the slight cold feeling. Removing blue makes the image more yellow. I also adjusted the fleshtones to make them less red, not more red.

The only way the desert would look more orange with my adjustments would be if i'd added red, not removed it like I did in this case. As far as I can tell, the hue of the desert in my adjusted screencaps is closer to the hue of the desert in the 35mm screencaps than your regraded screencaps. Am I missing something?

I used one of one of your regrades to construct a color correction model. The basis for my argument is the result I got for this frame:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/147246

To my eyes your regrade is more orange. Analyzing the rock Indy is standing on reveals average RGB values for your regrade  [163.9701  118.4535   71.4151]. The same analysis for my regrade gives [158.8538  120.2475   74.3358]. So, more red and less green in your regrade, hence more orange. 

I also did the analysis on the original frame I used to make the model:

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/146976 

The average RGB values for the sand to the left of Indy in your regrade  [166.8212  129.9876   91.2088]. The same analysis for my regrade gives [161.0879  130.4117   96.0465]. So, again more red and less green in your regrade, hence more orange. The same analysis for the bluray gives [168.6993  129.3077   89.6064], so your regrade is almost as orange as the bluray.  

In this frame for the 35 mm the sky is also pretty blue, so reducing the blue results in a more gray sky like in the bluray.

Oh, I think I understand where you're coming from now.

The adjustments I made were essentially to add yellow to the overall image to counter the slightly cold feeling I was picking up and add yellow and green to the fleshtones to make them less red and more like what I believe fleshtones looked like on 80's film, more 'natural' to that era as such, based on stills from 80's films i've seen. That would cause the reds in the fleshtones and the desert to shift towards orange. That is what you mean by the adjusted screencaps looking more orange, the colour shift from red to orange, rather than orange being added. That process is actually taking you towards the yellow desert of the 35mm prints, if you keep on adding yellow and green to the fleshtones, they would become more yellow and so to would the desert.

The problem with getting the desert as yellow as the 35mm print, if that is your aim, is that the fleshtones would all be completely yellow as well and everybody throughout the film would look like they're suffering from yellow fever. I personally wouldn't focus on the desert or other things in the background being a certain colour, I would focus on the overall colours looking correct to your eyes and especially the fleshtones looking natural, because thats where the viewers eyes are focused on most of the time, and let the rest of the colours come from that.

To my eyes I consider my adjustments to be an improvement on your regrade both in terms of overall colour and fleshtones but this is your project so what matters ultimately is what you prefer. If you like the blues to stand out a little more, like you pointed out in the desert sky, you should leave the blues unchanged. The desert sky in my adjusted shot looks more 'natural' to me but if you want more blue there its totally your call. If you prefer your fleshtones more reddish then leave them as they are.

Something you realise very quickly when you colour grade for a bit is that nothing is ever objectively 'right', it all just comes down to one's own personal preference. This is your project so of course you have the final say. I look forward to watching what you come up with regardless of whether I agree with all your colour choices, you're doing a very thorough job and i'm sure when you finish it'll look great :)

kk650 said:

DrDre said:

kk650 said:

DrDre said:

Although I like your screenshots, the desert scenes are more orange, as they are on the bluray, where the 35 mm frames show it should be more yellow.

You've lost me there. I adjusted your regraded screencaps by removing a bit of blue to get rid of the slight cold feeling. Removing blue makes the image more yellow. I also adjusted the fleshtones to make them less red, not more red.

The only way the desert would look more orange with my adjustments would be if i'd added red, not removed it like I did in this case. As far as I can tell, the hue of the desert in my adjusted screencaps is closer to the hue of the desert in the 35mm screencaps than your regraded screencaps. Am I missing something?

I used one of one of your regrades to construct a color correction model. The basis for my argument is the result I got for this frame:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/147246

To my eyes your regrade is more orange. Analyzing the rock Indy is standing on reveals average RGB values for your regrade  [163.9701  118.4535   71.4151]. The same analysis for my regrade gives [158.8538  120.2475   74.3358]. So, more red and less green in your regrade, hence more orange. 

I also did the analysis on the original frame I used to make the model:

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/146976 

The average RGB values for the sand to the left of Indy in your regrade  [166.8212  129.9876   91.2088]. The same analysis for my regrade gives [161.0879  130.4117   96.0465]. So, again more red and less green in your regrade, hence more orange. The same analysis for the bluray gives [168.6993  129.3077   89.6064], so your regrade is almost as orange as the bluray.  

In this frame for the 35 mm the sky is also pretty blue, so reducing the blue results in a more gray sky like in the bluray.

Oh, I think I understand where you're coming from now.

The adjustments I made were essentially to add yellow to the overall image to counter the slightly cold feeling I was picking up and add yellow and green to the fleshtones to make them less red and more like what I believe fleshtones looked like on 80's film, more 'natural' to that era as such, based on stills from 80's films i've seen. That would cause the reds in the fleshtones and the desert to shift towards orange. That is what you mean by the adjusted screencaps looking more orange, the colour shift from red to orange, rather than orange being added. That process is actually taking you towards the yellow desert of the 35mm prints, if you keep on adding yellow and green to the fleshtones, they would become more yellow and so to would the desert.

The problem with getting the desert as yellow as the 35mm print, if that is your aim, is that the fleshtones would all be completely yellow as well and everybody throughout the film would look like they're suffering from yellow fever. I personally wouldn't focus on the desert or other things in the background being a certain colour, I would focus on the overall colours looking correct to your eyes and especially the fleshtones looking natural, because thats where the viewers eyes are focused on most of the time, and let the rest of the colours come from that.

To my eyes I consider my adjustments to be an improvement on your regrade both in terms of overall colour and fleshtones but this is your project so what matters ultimately is what you prefer. If you like the blues to stand out a little more, like you pointed out in the desert sky, you should leave the blues unchanged. The desert sky in my adjusted shot looks more 'natural' to me but if you want more blue there its totally your call. If you prefer your fleshtones more reddish then leave them as they are.

Something you realise very quickly when you colour grade for a bit is that nothing is ever objectively 'right', it all just comes down to one's own personal preference. This is your project so of course you have the final say. I look forward to watching what you come up with regardless of whether I agree with all your colour choices, you're doing a very thorough job and i'm sure when you finish it'll look great :)

 I agree that your skin tones are very appealing. It's just that I want to approuch the 35 mm colors, and the comparisons with the trailer frames seem to suggest they're very close, including the skin tones. There's also much more blue in the trailer, which can especially be seen in the frame where Indy points his gun at the truck. 

Having seen Raiders on 35mm back in 2007, I can confirm that the bar scene was very much not red-shifted on original prints.  It looked pretty similar to the way it does in the trailer examples above.  I remember very clearly taking specific note of this at the time, and being somewhat surprised by it since it was so strikingly different.

Even more surprising to me was that the IMAX release from a few years ago also had a non-red version of this scene.  When I first saw the Bluray, I expected it to be the same since I'd been under the impression they were the same version, but the Bluray has the same red look to it that other home video releases do, so apparently it does not come from the same source.  The IMAX version I saw looked really good, so I wonder why they didn't use it for the Bluray.

I seem to remember pointing this out about the bar scene a few years ago, but I don't think anybody really took notice since I didn't have photographic proof to back up my claim.  So I'm glad to see that it has come up again now.

hairy_hen said:

Having seen Raiders on 35mm back in 2007, I can confirm that the bar scene was very much not red-shifted on original prints.  It looked pretty similar to the way it does in the trailer examples above.  I remember very clearly taking specific note of this at the time, and being somewhat surprised by it since it was so strikingly different.

Even more surprising to me was that the IMAX release from a few years ago also had a non-red version of this scene.  When I first saw the Bluray, I expected it to be the same since I'd been under the impression they were the same version, but the Bluray has the same red look to it that other home video releases do, so apparently it does not come from the same source.  The IMAX version I saw looked really good, so I wonder why they didn't use it for the Bluray.

I seem to remember pointing this out about the bar scene a few years ago, but I don't think anybody really took notice since I didn't have photographic proof to back up my claim.  So I'm glad to see that it has come up again now.

 The IMAX version had the exact same color as the blu-ray. I was horrified as soon as I saw the opening shots of the jungle. Only difference was more resolution, which really showed how badly they had messed up the gamma. I prayed that the blu-ray would not have the same revisionist color but I was wrong. Screenshots don't demonstrate how badly the blu-ray version looks when projected on a large screen. The Wowow looks much better.

I think your regrades look good but it is a losing proposition with the blu-ray because you can't fix the gamma in some scenes. I'm curious to see a few shots from the opening of the ark, that is the most messed up sequence color and gamma wise. 

All I can think of is that there are multiple versions floating around out there, because the one I saw defiinitely didn't look like the Bluray.  It looked like the 35mm print, which had no red tint in the bar scene at all.

Anyway, forget the Bluray, forget the IMAX; they don't matter—my point is that DrDre is on the right track with what he's doing for that scene, and I hope he continues with it.

I really like the latest regrade. It really shows how red/orange the blu-ray was in parts.

Here's my second attempt at regrading the bar brawl scene (bluray top, regrade bottom):

Looks good. The walls of the bar are supposed to be gray, not orange/red. I do think you went a little too far in the shot of Toht, there should be a little more red because of the fire.

litemakr said:

Looks good. The walls of the bar are supposed to be gray, not orange/red. I do think you went a little too far in the shot of Toht, there should be a little more red because of the fire.

 I added a bit more red. Here's the result (bluray top, regrade bottom):

I adjusted the color correction for the rest of the film somewhat, to have less dark green, as the band on Indy's hat was a bit too green in some frames. Here are a the same comparisons for the regrade against the white balanced 35 mm trailer.

Trailer:

Bluray:

Regrade:

Trailer:

Bluray:

Regrade:

Trailer:

Bluray:

Regrade:

Trailer:

Bluray:

Regrade:

Trailer:

Bluray:

Regrade:

Here's the comparison of the regrade against the 35 mm frames, the bluray, and the WOWOW.

35 mm:

Bluray:

WOWOW:

Regrade:

35 mm:

Bluray:

WOWOW:

Regrade:

35 mm:

Bluray:

WOWOW:

Regrade:

I personally wouldn't base a regrade for an entire film on the colours in a trailer, trailer colours are notoriously unreliable as poita said in the other thread and of course only show the colours of a few scenes, all the other scenes you'd have to guess at what they're meant to look like colourwise.

The trailer looks like it has a blanket blue tint all over it. You can see that especially in the bar scene in the trailer, it looks exactly as I think it must have looked on location when it was shot (ungraded basically) but with a blanket blue tint added to it. If you prefer that ungraded look, which I can understand, you have the problem of not knowing what other scenes not shown in the trailer would look like with the trailer's more neutral ungraded colour scheme. You'd be creating a film with a mismash of graded scenes taken from the blu-ray and ungraded scenes whose colours were taken from the trailer, creating an inconsistent colour scheme overall IMHO.

If you try to transfer the look of the trailer to the entire film I think you're just going to end up with a very blue looking film, which is what has happened with your latest regrade screencaps. The shots in the desert feel very cold in your regrade now and I don't think that's a good idea because it will create a disconnect with the viewer. They feel very unnatural to me.

I think you should discard the trailer as a colour grading reference because you don't have the colour scheme for the whole film. With your regraded shots in post 95 and 98 you were going in the right direction IMHO, they looked natural and very nice to me. I think my slight adjustments make them look even better but you may or may not agree with that. If you really want a less warm more neutral blueish colour scheme though, similar to the trailer, you should probably use the WOWOW release as a starting point rather than the blu-ray, that has a less warm more neutral feel to it overall and you have the whole film with the whole colour scheme, unlike the trailer where you just have a few scenes. Personally i'd continue using the blu-ray though, it feels more 'right' to me for a film shot in that era, even if it is more heavily graded.

Is this the re-release trailer? If so then it is a valid color reference because it would have been created from a timed print. It would be a couple generations removed from the inter-negative, but still not far off from a release print. There could be a shift towards warmer or cooler, but the trailer itself would not be re-timed shot by shot. 

The bigger issue is how the trailer was transferred to video and what could have been done digitally to alter the color, gamma, etc. 

Something else to keep in mind is that films were not heavily changed during color timing in the pre-digital days. They didn't have the ability to tweak color like they do today. The goal was usually accurate fleshtones and colors and consistent brightness and gamma. The look of a film was created in camera using filters and lighting, not in post production.

kk650 said:

I personally wouldn't base a regrade for an entire film on the colours in a trailer, trailer colours are notoriously unreliable as poita said in the other thread and of course only show the colours of a few scenes, all the other scenes you'd have to guess at what they're meant to look like colourwise.

The trailer looks like it has a blanket blue tint all over it. You can see that especially in the bar scene in the trailer, it looks exactly as I think it must have looked on location when it was shot (ungraded basically) but with a blanket blue tint added to it. If you prefer that ungraded look, which I can understand, you have the problem of not knowing what other scenes not shown in the trailer would look like with the trailer's more neutral ungraded colour scheme. You'd be creating a film with a mismash of graded scenes taken from the blu-ray and ungraded scenes whose colours were taken from the trailer, creating an inconsistent colour scheme overall IMHO.

If you try to transfer the look of the trailer to the entire film I think you're just going to end up with a very blue looking film, which is what has happened with your latest regrade screencaps. The shots in the desert feel very cold in your regrade now and I don't think that's a good idea because it will create a disconnect with the viewer. They feel very unnatural to me.

I think you should discard the trailer as a colour grading reference because you don't have the colour scheme for the whole film. With your regraded shots in post 95 and 98 you were going in the right direction IMHO, they looked natural and very nice to me. I think my slight adjustments make them look even better but you may or may not agree with that. If you really want a less warm more neutral blueish colour scheme though, similar to the trailer, you should probably use the WOWOW release as a starting point rather than the blu-ray, that has a less warm more neutral feel to it overall and you have the whole film with the whole colour scheme, unlike the trailer where you just have a few scenes. Personally i'd continue using the blu-ray though, it feels more 'right' to me for a film shot in that era, even if it is more heavily graded.

 I did not use the trailer as a reference, apart from the bar fight scene. I will come to that later. I used the 35 mm frames as a reference, and then observed that the color scheme I ended up with is very close to the trailer. The only adjustments I made to the origonal color grading is to reduce the dark greens, as the band on Indy's hat was too greenish compared to the photographs of Indy's hat from Raiders. 

As far as the 35 mm reference frames go, I'm satisfied, as I noticed the following:

1) In the first frame the chalkboard should be blue, which it is in the regrade.

2) The wall in the second frame is blue/green, and the jacket of the guy nearest to the camera is a yellowish beige. Both of these are true for the regarde, unlike the bluray and WOWOW.

3) In the third frame, the sky should be blue, the sand yellow, and Indy's scarf should be white. Again all these are all correct for the regrade, and not for the bluray and WOWOW.

So, the simple truth is, I tried to match the 35 mm frames, starting from a publicity shot from 1981, and ended up with a color scheme that closely matches the 35 mm trailer in every scene shown, except for the bar fight.

The color scheme for the bar fight was so different from any of the others, that the only logical conclusion was that the scene originally had a different color scheme, at least for the trailer. Since the trailer was from 1983, I believed it to be the color scheme for the 1981 theatrical release as well, and has since been confirmed by hairy_hen, who saw a 35 mm print in 2007. Since there are no other references for this scene, other than the trailer, and publicity photos, which also show that the lighting conditions for this scene were far from the red we see in the home video releases, I used the trailer and publicity photos as a reference.

Publicity photo:

Bluray:

Regrade:

litemakr said:

Is this the re-release trailer? If so then it is a valid color reference because it would have been created from a timed print. It would be a couple generations removed from the inter-negative, but still not far off from a release print. There could be a shift towards warmer or cooler, but the trailer itself would not be re-timed shot by shot. 

The bigger issue is how the trailer was transferred to video and what could have been done digitally to alter the color, gamma, etc. 

Something else to keep in mind is that films were not heavily changed during color timing in the pre-digital days. They didn't have the ability to tweak color like they do today. The goal was usually accurate fleshtones and colors and consistent brightness and gamma. The look of a film was created in camera using filters and lighting, not in post production.

I never said it wasn't a valid reference, just that it shows only a few scenes from the film, so it is not of much practical use. Without being able to see what the colours for the rest of the film looks like in different locations with that specific colour scheme, I think there isn't much point trying to regrade a whole film based on a trailer, many scenes could be ratically different from the blu-ray like the bar scene does and the change in colour will almost certainly not be uniform across the whole film.

As for how it looked theatrically, i've seen shots posted here from 35mm prints of Raiders of the Lost Ark that have the scenes in the desert looking very warm, as you would expect, with natural looking fleshtones taking into account the lighting of the scene and how fleshtones looked on film as that time, not bluish and cold like they are in the trailer. I see no point worrying about how the trailer looks when its just a tiny section of the film so cannot help in regrading the whole film and its colour reliability is questionable due to it being just a trailer and not the finished product.

DrDre said:

kk650 said:

I personally wouldn't base a regrade for an entire film on the colours in a trailer, trailer colours are notoriously unreliable as poita said in the other thread and of course only show the colours of a few scenes, all the other scenes you'd have to guess at what they're meant to look like colourwise.

The trailer looks like it has a blanket blue tint all over it. You can see that especially in the bar scene in the trailer, it looks exactly as I think it must have looked on location when it was shot (ungraded basically) but with a blanket blue tint added to it. If you prefer that ungraded look, which I can understand, you have the problem of not knowing what other scenes not shown in the trailer would look like with the trailer's more neutral ungraded colour scheme. You'd be creating a film with a mismash of graded scenes taken from the blu-ray and ungraded scenes whose colours were taken from the trailer, creating an inconsistent colour scheme overall IMHO.

If you try to transfer the look of the trailer to the entire film I think you're just going to end up with a very blue looking film, which is what has happened with your latest regrade screencaps. The shots in the desert feel very cold in your regrade now and I don't think that's a good idea because it will create a disconnect with the viewer. They feel very unnatural to me.

I think you should discard the trailer as a colour grading reference because you don't have the colour scheme for the whole film. With your regraded shots in post 95 and 98 you were going in the right direction IMHO, they looked natural and very nice to me. I think my slight adjustments make them look even better but you may or may not agree with that. If you really want a less warm more neutral blueish colour scheme though, similar to the trailer, you should probably use the WOWOW release as a starting point rather than the blu-ray, that has a less warm more neutral feel to it overall and you have the whole film with the whole colour scheme, unlike the trailer where you just have a few scenes. Personally i'd continue using the blu-ray though, it feels more 'right' to me for a film shot in that era, even if it is more heavily graded.

 I did not use the trailer as a reference, apart from the bar fight scene. I will come to that later. I used the 35 mm frames as a reference, and then observed that the color scheme I ended up with is very close to the trailer. The only adjustments I made to the origonal color grading is to reduce the dark greens, as the band on Indy's hat was too greenish compared to the photographs of Indy's hat from Raiders. 

As far as the 35 mm reference frames go, I'm satisfied, as I noticed the following:

1) In the first frame the chalkboard should be blue, which it is in the regrade.

2) The wall in the second frame is blue/green, and the jacket of the guy nearest to the camera is a yellowish beige. Both of these are true for the regarde, unlike the bluray and WOWOW.

3) In the third frame, the sky should be blue, the sand yellow, and Indy's scarf should be white. Again all these are all correct for the regrade, and not for the bluray and WOWOW.

So, the simple truth is, I tried to match the 35 mm frames, starting from a publicity shot from 1981, and ended up with a color scheme that closely matches the 35 mm trailer in every scene shown, except for the bar fight.

The color scheme for the bar fight was so different from any of the others, that the only logical conclusion was that the scene originally had a different color scheme, at least for the trailer. Since the trailer was from 1983, I believed it to be the color scheme for the 1981 theatrical release as well, and has since been confirmed by hairy_hen, who saw a 35 mm print in 2007. Since there are no other references for this scene, other than the trailer, and publicity photos, which also show that the lighting conditions for this scene were far from the red we see in the home video releases, I used the trailer and publicity photos as a reference.

Publicity photo:

Bluray:

Regrade:

 

The publicity photo looks warm while your current regrade settings look cold, especially the fleshtones. Ultimately it boils down to your own preference of course, cold fleshtones on Raiders of the Lost Ark don't look right to me personally and the majority of stills and 35mm prints i've seen support that assumption. Here's another still from that bar scene that looks warm like your previous still:

I don't know if you use the movie stills database website, if you don't you really should, its really helped me in the past with older catalog releases to get a better feel for how colours and fleshtones looked on film at the time it was shot, how the sets looked with their natural lighting, how costume looked in normal lighting etc. Here's the address below for Raiders of the Lost Ark:

http://www.moviestillsdb.com/movies/raiders-of-the-lost-ark-i82971

kk650 said:

 

The publicity photo looks warm while your current regrade settings look cold, especially the fleshtones. Ultimately it boils down to your own preference of course, cold fleshtones on Raiders of the Lost Ark don't look right to me personally and the majority of stills and 35mm prints i've seen support that assumption. Here's another still from that bar scene that looks warm like your previous still:

I don't know if you use the movie stills database website, if you don't you really should, its really helped me in the past with older catalog releases to get a better feel for how colours and fleshtones looked on film at the time it was shot, how the sets looked with their natural lighting, how costume looked in normal lighting etc. Here's the address below for Raiders of the Lost Ark:

http://www.moviestillsdb.com/movies/raiders-of-the-lost-ark-i82971

 The problem to me is that, don't look right is not a very objective criterium. Here's another teaser trailer that has most of its colors intact, and is consistent with the 1983 re-release trailer, confirms the color grading for the bar fight scene is accurate. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkkzKHCx154

Trailer:

Bluray:

Regrade:

Trailer:

Bluray:

Regrade:

Dr Dre, have you tried adjusting the colours on the WOWOW HDTV version? That in my opinion looks a bit closer as a starting point than the blu-ray in terms of the look you might be after.

The trouble with the blu-ray is the shadow detail seems a bit orange and red at times, which looks difficult to change without causing it to change into a different colour such as purple or blue.

Actually the WOWOW is much more difficult to regrade. The bluray is already pretty close to the 35 mm references, aside from an orange hue, and a slightly warmer tone.