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What if TFA is awful? — Page 3

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DominicCobb said:

Mike said it in the Undressing Underground podcast he did. I respect the hell out of him and all, but he seems to hate everything that's not the original film by default. So I'm taking his inside info with a grain of salt.

Well, I understand your opinion on Mr. Verta's take on the new movies, but there's no reason to doubt of what he said about his insiders: he just told us what he heard by himself.

P.S.: should it be "heard by himself" or "heard himself"? Tricky grammar :\

The Original Trilogy’s Timeline Reconstruction: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Implied-starting-date-of-the-Empire-from-OT-dialogue/post/786201/#TopicPost786201

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SilverWook said:

I thought donkey scrotum was the standard by which suckitude was measured? ;)

Well, I figured those poor donkeys were having their sacs so overworked they deserved a break, and those lazy rats really needed to start picking up the slack.  ;)

 

Anyway, I hadn't heard Mike's info before, but it certainly doesn't surprise me if the movie just comes across as being a generic modern blockbuster with the name 'Star Wars' attached to it.  Producing expensive-but-disposable content is the main part of what the movie industry does, especially recently.

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This thread is hilarious.  Might as well make a thread called "What if it snows tomorrow?"

A: Life goes on.

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John Doom said:

DominicCobb said:

Mike said it in the Undressing Underground podcast he did. I respect the hell out of him and all, but he seems to hate everything that's not the original film by default. So I'm taking his inside info with a grain of salt.

Well, I understand your opinion on Mr. Verta's take on the new movies, but there's no reason to doubt of what he said about his insiders: he just told us what he heard by himself.

P.S.: should it be "heard by himself" or "heard himself"? Tricky grammar :\

 What specifically did he say though? 

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He said he knows several people working on the vfx for TFA at ILM and that they've told him it's not, in their opinion, going to be a particularly good movie.

I don't doubt he was told this, but he only discussed it in the vaguest of terms. Perhaps he was told more by his friends and didn't want to get them in trouble.

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John Doom said:

Tallguy said:

What are the Verta rumors?

Basically, Mr. Verta said that his insiders working on TFA's effects department think it's not a good movie (and that they said the same of the prequels): after working on it for 3 months, they showed up "depressed", called it ILM (Incredibly Low Morale) and that it's not Star Wars, just another picture. Of course, as Mr. Verta said, they worked on the special effects, so maybe they didn't get the whole picture, who knows. Good to know their opinion too, though.

 Let me play the ultimate devil's advocate here, and say a great deal of people involved in the original Star Wars never thought the movie was good. 

Seeking only the most natural looking colors for Star Wars '77

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Fang Zei said:

He said he knows several people working on the vfx for TFA at ILM and that they've told him it's not, in their opinion, going to be a particularly good movie.

I don't doubt he was told this, but he only discussed it in the vaguest of terms. Perhaps he was told more by his friends and didn't want to get them in trouble.

He could be talking out of his ass but on the other hand it's possible he was actually told this. It's unknowable so I'm taking that with a mountain of salt. I'm not going to let hearsay effect my outlook on a film....I haven't even seen yet. 

Also what Swazzy said was spot on. Also subjectivity is a big thing now a days. 

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Damn. I just typed an epic post and it somehow got deleted before I could put it up. I'll try to paraphrase...

I'm pumped. I can't see the TFA being awful. To make me happy, it just has to be better than the prequels (not hard to do... to be better than the worst movies ever made in the history of man).

Plus, I think I have more faith in J.J. Abrams than most. Sure, not everything he's done has been great, but most of it hasn't sucked either (wasn't a fan of Into Darkness but it wasn't terrible... just "meh"). And with Lawrence Kasdan involved, I'm just not worried.

I said a lot more originally, but I'll leave it with that. I know it's dangerous to be pumped for this, (better to be cautiously optimistic), but I can't help it... and having tickets for an advance screening helps!

<span style=“font-size: 12px;”><span>We seem to be made to suffer. It’s our lot in life.</span></span>

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Astroboi2 said:

Damn. I just typed an epic post and it somehow got deleted before I could put it up. I'll try to paraphrase...

 ctrl+C is a powerful ally. 

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I fear after TPM and Prometheus I am now un-pumpable.

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Bingowings said:

I fear after TPM and Prometheus I am now un-pumpable.

Understandable. Those two movies did leave me feeling rather deflated too... but I just can't seem to help myself on this one!

But maybe I should tackle the actual question. If TFA is awful... I'll probably honestly distance myself from Star Wars in general for a while. I'll always love the original trilogy, and I know I'd go back to watching and enjoying it eventually, but I'd probably shift my focus for a while. I'm a big fan of various kinds of movies - especially art-house and early B&W stuff - so I'd probably dive more into that.

Although, if the OUT ever actually comes out on Blu Ray, that would definitely get me excited about the Star Wars universe again in a big way! But that's for another thread...

<span style=“font-size: 12px;”><span>We seem to be made to suffer. It’s our lot in life.</span></span>

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Swazzy said:

John Doom said:

Tallguy said:

What are the Verta rumors?

Basically, Mr. Verta said that his insiders working on TFA's effects department think it's not a good movie (and that they said the same of the prequels): after working on it for 3 months, they showed up "depressed", called it ILM (Incredibly Low Morale) and that it's not Star Wars, just another picture. Of course, as Mr. Verta said, they worked on the special effects, so maybe they didn't get the whole picture, who knows. Good to know their opinion too, though.

 Let me play the ultimate devil's advocate here, and say a great deal of people involved in the original Star Wars never thought the movie was good. 

 And some of them are signing autographs at cons. ;)

There are members of this forum who only hold the original film in high regard. And those who think Jedi is the bee's knees.

It's likely there's just as much diversity of opinion in the cubicles of ILM.

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Where were you in '77?

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I've been warning about TFA being possibly bad, because we've been burned before with the prequels. Hopefully history won't repeat itself, but this feels like the months just before Episode I. Plus there's the factor of Disney reviving the series to capitalize on the acquisition of the IP in the first place, but the Marvel movies were good, right?

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Were there any insiders expressing dismay about TPM back in 1999 though?

The internet rumor mill wasn't what it is now of course.

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Where were you in '77?

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SilverWook said:

Were there any insiders expressing dismay about TPM back in 1999 though?

The internet rumor mill wasn't what it is now of course.

I don't recall any insiders expressing dismay, but I do remember many of my friends being very worried about TPM (those same frinds are a little more optimistic for TFA) . At the time I was pumped just because it was new Star Wars, but my first glimpse of Jar Jar made me immediately nervous... plus the fact that George hadn't really directed anything for quite some time.

<span style=“font-size: 12px;”><span>We seem to be made to suffer. It’s our lot in life.</span></span>

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SilverWook said:

Were there any insiders expressing dismay about TPM back in 1999 though?

The internet rumor mill wasn't what it is now of course.

The only advance warning I got about TPM was a local popular theatre owner who declined to show TPM after they saw a preview screening.  It seemed like a crazy decision at the time--it even warranted a local newspaper story where they essentially were asked to explain themselves, because it was right in the middle of the crazy TPM-buzz-media-blitz, and how can you not show Star Wars?

But I think even if TFA's pretty bad, most people would still show it--even this theatre--because it would draw crowds and money regardless.  It would have to be a real howling dog for it to get the TPM treatment, and I don't really think that's in the cards.  And in the end, TPM (hell, even ROTS!) made fistfuls of money, so it proved that even if the theatre ultimately boosted its reputation by avoiding TPM, they still lost money on that decision.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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I'm surprised at the doubt some fans are expressing, particularly around here. The very reason so many prequel & SE fans are pre-judging it (non-Lucas film) is the very reason I would assume people here would be optimistic.

I've never made any secret of the fact that I own, like, and on occasion watch only the 1977 original Star Wars.  I all but abandoned the franchise thirty years ago, EU excepted. Even then, that was only after several people here made me give some of it a read (thank you again, by the way). 

However, everything that caused me to abandon ship all those years ago has now been eliminated. With the restored franchise we now have a director with a proven track record of quality films. In just over 20 years, Abrams has an impressive record of success and recognition in film and TV, both critical and commercial.

He has successfully handled the restoration of another culturally significant franchise which had long since lost its way (Star Trek).  He also very clearly understands the type of story, character, and tone of film that connected with audiences in the late 70s\early 80s, as well as how to continue it (Super 8).

His casting choices have also been amazing.  If you can successfully recast Kirk, Spock, & McCoy, you can recast anyone.  He's obviously a fan of Star Wars and from what we've seen so far it shows in his aesthetic, his set design, and his pacing (or sometimes lack of it, which is equally important).

To add a cherry on top, Kasdan is the screen writer.  The very person who gave us what many people consider to be the best film of the franchise, not to mention the third Star Wars film and Raiders Of The Lost Ark. Second cherry; they've gone back to the original McQuarrie art to guide the visual design.

There are plenty of people saying things like "I learned my lesson in 1999. I was tremendously let down with Phantom".  How could you not have been?  Nothing had changed since Return other than Lucas having removed anyone who didn't parrot his every thought.  We'd seen how Lucas had tampered with the originals, and we'd witnessed him continually lying about the franchise while attempting to revise history.

Here we are 15 years later and all that made Phantom terrible has been removed and a great deal of what spoke to us 30 years ago has been returned.  Not the least of which is the original cast, who have nothing but praise for all this is turning out to be. 

If you have Harrison Ford fully engaged and complimentary, arguably one of the most outspoken critics of the original trilogy and director, you've no doubt moved the franchise back to solid ground.

For me, a fan who jumped ship a long time ago, what I've seen the past year is light years better than anything post-Empire.

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Ridley Scott is still a strong visual director but he allowed himself to be associated with a script mangled to death by Lindelof.

I like Super8 and Cloverfield but his first Star Trek is as bad/good as any TNG movie and the second one is truly painful in places. He didn't write the screenplay but he allowed himself to be closely associated with it. He is allowing himself to be closely associated with TFA.

See... unpumpable :-D

I still want to be wrong.

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Bingowings said:

Ridley Scott is still a strong visual director but he allowed himself to be associated with a script mangled to death by Lindelof.

I like Super8 and Cloverfield but his first Star Trek is as bad/good as any TNG movie and the second one is truly painful in places. He didn't write the screenplay but he allowed himself to be closely associated with it. He is allowing himself to be closely associated with TFA.

See... unpumpable :-D

I still want to be wrong.

 I would agree with all that.  There are parts of Into Darkness where I sort of glazed-over out of disinterest.  I'd still take it over the last two TNGs any day.

I think you'll be wrong.  But in a good way.  ;-)

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Anchorhead said:

I'm surprised at the doubt some fans are expressing, particularly around here. The very reason so many prequel & SE fans are pre-judging it (non-Lucas film) is the very reason I would assume people here would be optimistic.

I've never made any secret of the fact that I own, like, and on occasion watch only the 1977 original Star Wars.  I all but abandoned the franchise thirty years ago, EU excepted. Even then, that was only after several people here made me give some of it a read (thank you again, by the way). 

However, everything that caused me to abandon ship all those years ago has now been eliminated. With the restored franchise we now have a director with a proven track record of quality films. In just over 20 years, Abrams has an impressive record of success and recognition in film and TV, both critical and commercial.

He has successfully handled the restoration of another culturally significant franchise which had long since lost its way (Star Trek).  He also very clearly understands the type of story, character, and tone of film that connected with audiences in the late 70s\early 80s, as well as how to continue it (Super 8).

His casting choices have also been amazing.  If you can successfully recast Kirk, Spock, & McCoy, you can recast anyone.  He's obviously a fan of Star Wars and from what we've seen so far it shows in his aesthetic, his set design, and his pacing (or sometimes lack of it, which is equally important).

To add a cherry on top, Kasdan is the screen writer.  The very person who gave us what many people consider to be the best film of the franchise, not to mention the third Star Wars film and Raiders Of The Lost Ark. Second cherry; they've gone back to the original McQuarrie art to guide the visual design.

There are plenty of people saying things like "I learned my lesson in 1999. I was tremendously let down with Phantom".  How could you not have been?  Nothing had changed since Return other than Lucas having removed anyone who didn't parrot his every thought.  We'd seen how Lucas had tampered with the originals, and we'd witnessed him continually lying about the franchise while attempting to revise history.

Here we are 15 years later and all that made Phantom terrible has been removed and a great deal of what spoke to us 30 years ago has been returned.  Not the least of which is the original cast, who have nothing but praise for all this is turning out to be. 

If you have Harrison Ford fully engaged and complimentary, arguably one of the most outspoken critics of the original trilogy and director, you've no doubt moved the franchise back to solid ground.

For me, a fan who jumped ship a long time ago, what I've seen the past year is light years better than anything post-Empire.

I could not disagree more with your opinion on this.

But you are entitled to your opinion as I am mine.

And it is my opinion that JJ "Armageddon" Abrahams  pissed all over whatever Star Trek ever stood for.

If revitalising a franchise involves lens flares, shaky cams, school boy dialogue,superfluous and generic action set pieces, 1 Dimensional CGI and shallow character emotional arcs then yes.....JJ "revitalised" Star Trek.

In 1978 it would have been easy for Robert Wise to have done Star Trek The Motion Picture in the mould of the then fresh and new Star Wars.

But they did not.   

They chose to tread their own path which was met with a polarised response.

And whilst some claimed STMP strayed away from what made the TV original series such fun I believe it was still faithful to the source material....it just added an epic, cinematic aesthetic to the proceedings.....I personally love the Motion Picture as much as I love the original Star Wars.

JJ on the other hand chose every generic  cliché trick in the book to create Star Trek in 2008.....pandering to  contemporary demographic sensibilities instead of creative intuition.

And yes , I will take any of the SW prequels over the 2009 and 2013 Star Treks any day of the week.....just my opinion of course.

I saw Star Wars in 1977. Many, many, many times. For 3 years it was just Star Wars...period. I saw it in good theaters, cheap theaters and drive-ins with those clunky metal speakers you hang on your window. The screen and sound quality never subtracted from the excitement. I can watch the original cut right now, over 30 years later, on some beat up VHS tape and enjoy it. It's the story that makes this movie. Nothing? else.

kurtb8474 1 week ago

http://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=SkAZxd-5Hp8


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 (Edited)

About Abrams, yesterday I (tried) to watch again Mission Impossible 3 to study his directing and, screenplay aside (which, I HOPE, he had nothing to do with), here's my opinion:

-the way he put faces VERY CLOSE to the frame is painful to watch, making the resulting screen look cropped. I think he said they look more "intimate", but they just look bad compositions to me;

-I understand quickly switching between shots is useful to give a sense of tension, but during gunfights he completely abused of this "trick", making half of the time hard to tell what is really going on;

-to this, add "lens flares": they're so strong (especially in the helicopter scene), that basically cover almost half the screen, making hard to se what's going on (though Abrams recently said he is aware of this issue and he's going to use them less);

-camera shaking: common "trick" to make the scene look live and add tension. He shaked it half the times so much (even when unnecessary) that it kind of gives you headache (again, helicopter scene).

So, so far I dislike his directing. Later on, I turned up TV and watched "Killer Joe" which was directed by William Friedkin, and his work looks WAY more professional than Abrams's.

The Original Trilogy’s Timeline Reconstruction: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Implied-starting-date-of-the-Empire-from-OT-dialogue/post/786201/#TopicPost786201

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John Doom said:

About Abrams, yesterday I (tried) to watch again Mission Impossible 3 to study his directing and, screenplay aside (which, I HOPE, he had nothing to do with), here's my opinion:

-the way he put faces VERY CLOSE to the frame is painful to watch, making the resulting screen look cropped. I think he said it looks more "intimate", but it just looks like bad composition to me;

-I understand quickly switching between shots is useful to give a sense of tension, but during gunfights he completely abused of this "trick", making most of the time hard to tell what's really going on;

-to this, add "lens flares": they're so strong (especially in the helicopter scene), that basically cover almost half the screen, making really hard to understand what's going on (though Abrams recently said he is aware of this issue and he's going to use them less);

-camera shaking: common "trick" to make the scene look live and add tension. He shaked it half the times so much (even when unnecessary) that it kind of gives you headache (again, helicopter scene).

So, so far I dislike his directing. Later on, I turned up TV and watched "Killer Joe" which was directed by William Friedkin, and his work looks WAY more professional than Abrams's.

 

Totally agreed on all the above.

Lucas could have shot the Phantom Menace with lens flares,shaky cams and rapid fire editing(ala Michal Bay) in 1998 but chose to preserve the static compositions and conservative editing(by 1990's standards)of the OT.

Lucas's main departure with the prequels was the use of CGI and the character (or lack of) portrayals.

But one factor that affected the prequels which hardly anyone notices is that the audience already new where the plot and the characters were headed(they just did not know how) across all 3 episodes(I,II and III).

What was the main attraction of the OT whilst it was unfolding?......the idea that you had no idea where it was heading and who would survive and who would not.

Big difference.

     

I saw Star Wars in 1977. Many, many, many times. For 3 years it was just Star Wars...period. I saw it in good theaters, cheap theaters and drive-ins with those clunky metal speakers you hang on your window. The screen and sound quality never subtracted from the excitement. I can watch the original cut right now, over 30 years later, on some beat up VHS tape and enjoy it. It's the story that makes this movie. Nothing? else.

kurtb8474 1 week ago

http://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=SkAZxd-5Hp8


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Bingowings said:

Ridley Scott is still a strong visual director but he allowed himself to be associated with a script mangled to death by Lindelof.

I like Super8 and Cloverfield but his first Star Trek is as bad/good as any TNG movie and the second one is truly painful in places. He didn't write the screenplay but he allowed himself to be closely associated with it. He is allowing himself to be closely associated with TFA.

See... unpumpable :-D

I still want to be wrong.

 You win the "post I agree with most" award today!

– Bill

Never tell me the odds.