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Info: The Look of Terminator 2 — Page 8

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metall_havy said:

MrBrown said:

Uhm.. the seller states this in the headline "F/S" (I read it as "Full Screen". But interpretating the backside I would assume it is normal WideScreen. Also compared with the japanese Wide and Full Screen LD release Backsides and OBIs I cannot find any "Full Screen" clue on the coverimages at ebay.

Anyone know anything? it is a bit expensive to blind-dip it...

EDIT: ...nevermind the blind-dip part. I just realised it was sold while searching the web for informations on that.

EDIT 2: Comparing with backsides from other japanese Temrinator 2 releases it seems to be a widescreen Version. The Writing under the 16:9 Logo (was an indicator, but without any more information it also can be used as an "here is the box for the aspect ratio information) is the same as on the backside of another release explicitly stated as 16:9 widescreen...

 teatrical cut

There is a similar issue,but pal 131min

 Russia seems to be the only (PAL) Region that got the Movie on Full Screen DVD.

To bad I can't find the russian DVD on eBay. Would be something nice to put into my DVD shelf.

"I kill Gandalf." - Igor, Dork Tower

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 (Edited)

alexpeden2000 said:

Not sure if anyone's seen but there are some 35mm film strips for sale on ebay UK:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2060353.m570.l1313.TR10.TRC2.A0.H0.Xterminator+2+35mm.TRS0&_nkw=terminator+2+35mm&_sacat=0

Seems to suggest that trailer that's on youtube may be fairly accurate

Actually, those film strips are from the same trailer. Notice:

1. They are not anamorphic

2. One of the strips is the Kyle Reese scene

3. Another strip is the "T2" logo.

The majority of film strips on eBay UK come from trailers. I've only seen strips for a couple movies that look to have come from actual theatrical prints.

On the other hand, this (sold) listing seems to be strips from an actual print - they are anamorphic, and look to all be from the same scene:

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Terminator-2-35mm-unmounted-film-cell-lot-x75-/252029253300?nav=SEARCH

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OK checked out the the Chace audio mix of T1 thanks to Mr. B!

It's clearly a totally different mix from the mono mix AND the ulterior 5.1 remix.

The voices are placed way clearer than on the original mono, and for example in the police precinct massacre scene, you can hear everything the cops scream in the background and understand all the words they are saying.

I think they took the stems and repurposed them to try to make for a better mix. It sounds artificial in some instances. Stems are for example: Voices / Sounds Effects / Music / Foley.

it has a stereo feel but sounds like the original mix, only in stereo. It's not as finished as the original mono track, but it still is very interesting to hear as an alternate mix.

It's an awesome find. 

Now all we need is to sync it and pitch it back to the current Blu-ray master ;)

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TServo2049 said:

alexpeden2000 said:

Not sure if anyone's seen but there are some 35mm film strips for sale on ebay UK:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2060353.m570.l1313.TR10.TRC2.A0.H0.Xterminator+2+35mm.TRS0&_nkw=terminator+2+35mm&_sacat=0

Seems to suggest that trailer that's on youtube may be fairly accurate

Actually, those film strips are from the same trailer. Notice:

1. They are not anamorphic

2. One of the strips is the Kyle Reese scene

3. Another strip is the "T2" logo.

The majority of film strips on eBay UK come from trailers. I've only seen strips for a couple movies that look to have come from actual theatrical prints.

That will explain why they look the same haha.

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Stamper said:

OK checked out the the Chace audio mix of T1 thanks to Mr. B!

It's clearly a totally different mix from the mono mix AND the ulterior 5.1 remix.

The voices are placed way clearer than on the original mono, and for example in the police precinct massacre scene, you can hear everything the cops scream in the background and understand all the words they are saying.

I think they took the stems and repurposed them to try to make for a better mix. It sounds artificial in some instances. Stems are for example: Voices / Sounds Effects / Music / Foley.

it has a stereo feel but sounds like the original mix, only in stereo. It's not as finished as the original mono track, but it still is very interesting to hear as an alternate mix.

It's an awesome find. 

Now all we need is to sync it and pitch it back to the current Blu-ray master ;)

 Dude. Seriously. Get in touch with someone either here or on fanedit.org who does that sorta thing and get it up on either the spleen or blutorrents STAT. T1 is my 2nd favorite movie of all time. I NEED to hear this audio mix.

Heck, just upload the audio file and I'll sync it up to my digital file of my vhs copy myself :D

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MrBrown said:

metall_havy said:

MrBrown said:

Uhm.. the seller states this in the headline "F/S" (I read it as "Full Screen". But interpretating the backside I would assume it is normal WideScreen. Also compared with the japanese Wide and Full Screen LD release Backsides and OBIs I cannot find any "Full Screen" clue on the coverimages at ebay.

Anyone know anything? it is a bit expensive to blind-dip it...

EDIT: ...nevermind the blind-dip part. I just realised it was sold while searching the web for informations on that.

EDIT 2: Comparing with backsides from other japanese Temrinator 2 releases it seems to be a widescreen Version. The Writing under the 16:9 Logo (was an indicator, but without any more information it also can be used as an "here is the box for the aspect ratio information) is the same as on the backside of another release explicitly stated as 16:9 widescreen...

 teatrical cut

There is a similar issue,but pal 131min

 Russia seems to be the only (PAL) Region that got the Movie on Full Screen DVD.

To bad I can't find the russian DVD on eBay. Would be something nice to put into my DVD shelf.

 I know where to get it. There are several.

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metall_havy said:

MrBrown said:

metall_havy said:

MrBrown said:

Uhm.. the seller states this in the headline "F/S" (I read it as "Full Screen". But interpretating the backside I would assume it is normal WideScreen. Also compared with the japanese Wide and Full Screen LD release Backsides and OBIs I cannot find any "Full Screen" clue on the coverimages at ebay.

Anyone know anything? it is a bit expensive to blind-dip it...

EDIT: ...nevermind the blind-dip part. I just realised it was sold while searching the web for informations on that.

EDIT 2: Comparing with backsides from other japanese Temrinator 2 releases it seems to be a widescreen Version. The Writing under the 16:9 Logo (was an indicator, but without any more information it also can be used as an "here is the box for the aspect ratio information) is the same as on the backside of another release explicitly stated as 16:9 widescreen...

 teatrical cut

There is a similar issue,but pal 131min

...

 Russia seems to be the only (PAL) Region that got the Movie on Full Screen DVD.

To bad I can't find the russian DVD on eBay. Would be something nice to put into my DVD shelf.

 I know where to get it. There are several.

 You have an eBay link? Or a reliable store link? I really would liket to get it as retail disc.

"I kill Gandalf." - Igor, Dork Tower

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 (Edited)

Servo posted a link to these pics a few post ago, I just wanted to add them to this thread:

Notice the level of blue tint. Also wanted to add these:

More blue and purple

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 (Edited)

So I had a late night, last night and had to get my mind on something else. Lucky for me metall_havy had sent me some of his samples of T2 from this thread. Thanks metall_havy!

The most interesting video so far (haven't gone through them all yet) is the one he references in post 171. It was clearly derived from a 35mm print as he mentions. You can see the cues. I took that video which has a green tint and re-balanced it towards the blue in one scene. I was surprised to see it match up pretty close with the 35mm frames Servo posted, the stuff I posted (35mm and 8mm), some scenes in trailers and this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnEACdAr1rk

Combine that with what I saw in a 35mm print of True Lies (similar in color timing) and I think T2 is suppose to be significantly bluer then the BD. I ran a brief test at regrading to give it a look. This is 1 LUT for the whole movie and individual scenes would have their saturation, brightness, gamma and colors adjusted but I think it might be closer to what a 35mm print looks like.

BD/Test Regrade

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The 35mm print I saw absolutely did NOT look like that, PDB.

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 (Edited)

There could be multiple prints that look different, possibly from differemt print runs or different labs or something. Beber is in France; perhaps there was an intermediate used for European prints that had less blue/orange and more purple/teal/yellow? (This could explain why there seem to be color similarities between the print Beber saw, the Derann Super 8, and possibly the original VCL DVD too...)

TylerDurden389 said he saw one that looked blue - Tyler, do PDB's images resemble what you saw?

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I don't remember saying that, lol. You sure we weren't talking about T1?

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 (Edited)

Your quote:

I saw T2 at a theater in downtown Manhattan a few years back, and I know it was an actual print due to the blemishes and cigarette burns (reel change markers). The night scenes were still their usual blue/black combo look.

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 (Edited)

 Maybe it was kaosjm you were think about Servo?

Beber said:

The 35mm print I saw absolutely did NOT look like that, PDB.

 What is wrong about it Beber? Too blue, too purple? All wrong?

Part 1

Here is a little analysis of what I did. I took this frame from the video recording (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnEACdAr1rk):

Notice the blue bias, the purple highlights. I took that pic re-balanced it a bit and applied the colors to the BD to get this:

BD/Regrade

Which is a fairly close match. Got the blues, purple highlights. Jacket loses the green and tends towards black. From that regrade I built a LUT and applied it to the whole film, just to see what it would look like. Going off the video many scenes matched up or were closer:

Video

BD/Regrade

Notice in the video the roof section is redder, the minigun is black, the color of the brick, same as in the regrade using the one LUT from the one frame regrade.

Another desert shot:

Video

BD/Regrade

Again the regrade is closer. It doesn't have the orange shift. Let's shift to the night scenes. This is the most important part for me and why I looked at T2. I contend that the night/dark scenes in T2 has a large blue bias. Witness from the video, the aftermath of the copter chase:

Video

BD/Regrade

Hmmm. The BD has Arnold nature skin tones mix in there a bit which is wrong but has the right aqua blue highlights. The regrade blue is darker (too dark?) which is correct given the video but the highlights are all wrong.

Lets try another

Video/BD/Regrade

Regrade is closest. And more

Video/BD/Regrade

You get the point. Its never perfect but overall the regrade is much closer. I'd also like to point out that this scene is a bit yellower like it was discussed in the the beginning of the thread

BD/Regrade

Continued in Part 2

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 (Edited)

Part 2

So I hear you pointing out the obvious. This was done from a video pointed at a 35mm showing. The white balance could be off. The exposure could be wrong. A hundred thing could be wrong. And you know what, that's right so let's look at show other sources.

So lets look at the 35mm frames Servo posted from ebay. 

Pretty dark blue bias. You could say its wrong since you are not looking at these through a theater projector with a correct bulb but they do look strangely close to the dark blue scenes from the video. Look at the pics I posted in 186. (Indecently, these strips say AFGA so they are more then likely from a European print)

Let look at some 35mm frames I found.

35/BD/Regrade

Again not perfect but much closer. 

Part 3, looking at the 8mm, a little later but look at post 186 and look at the 8mm (1st page) Terminator in the flames, the Sarah dream, the purple in the hallway in the 1st T-800 vs T-1000 battle

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 (Edited)

Beber and kaosjm both describe seeing the blue-blanket scenes with more teal and/or purple, and the orange scenes having more yellow than orange. On page 2 there is a picture of kaosjm's notepad saying "teal Sarah hospital" and "Cyberdyne arm purple".

Beber is in France, kaosjm is in Texas. TylerDurden389 said he remembered the more familiar blue blanket, and the screening captured on YouTube seems to be more blue and more orange than what Beber/kaosjm saw.

Maybe it's not America/Europe, but something is up here. It could just be regular color variance between prints/print runs, I have no idea. I believe everybody here. I know photochemical development was not always accurate; I know there is an LPP print of Jedi out there where there is a blue cast in a lot of scenes, I think Team -1 says they have another one with a heavy green cast, but since it's LPP, those can't be chalked up to fading and have to be down to how the prints came out of the lab.

[It's said that no two prints look identical, but that doesn't mean every print varies wildly from every other - for example, I have seen two separate prints of Pee-Wee's Big Adventure that looked to have very similar color. They were at the same theater, even - I know they were different prints because I noticed a weird lab glitch the first time where there was some green-yellow image with visible sprocket holes double-exposed over a couple frames, and when I recently saw it again I did not see that anomaly. But that's all a tangent...]

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I like your shot of the T-1000 facing us in the steel factory, with the chains behind him and liquid steel in fusion. Less orange, more yellow and the whole shot looks as if it was 35mm in its texture, well, you know. Apart from that one, the one with Arnold smiling at his Minigun and Arnold in the desert are fine, but the rest... no way. I have never that blue and absolutley nowhere near that amount of saturation.

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Lol right. Goodness, I feel like I said that a few years back now, lol. But yeah, the print looked like every vhs/dvd I've ever watched of the film.

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 (Edited)

So it does seem there are 35mm prints out there with two different color palettes - the print Tyler saw, and seemingly the print that was camcorded on YouTube (more in line with the blue/orange of the video transfers, but possibly even more pushed to blue; possibly with the biker bar stuff having additional blue pushing that's not in the home transfers?), and the prints kaosjm and Beber saw (blue-blanket scenes less pure blue with more teal and purple, orange stuff is more yellow).

What they seem to have in common (with each other and with the IP/IPs used for home video) are that the night scenes are tinted/pushed - unlike the trailers - and the steel mill stuff is pushed, but to where/how far they are pushed seems to differ. The Wikipedia article on internegatives says that color timing is done between IP and IN - based on the answer print?

This is all so intriguing...

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Since I own both the Skynet Blu (for the three cuts and extras) and the Van Ling No DNR 2015 Blu, it appears PDB's color timing would be what I'd want. Possibly derived from the 2015 Blu-ray for the source to use?

Practically forgot about how both the original no features DVD, Ultimate Edition (I had the 2 DVD9 release), and the Extreme Edition DVD releases I used to own. Even used to own the double tape VHS which had the film in OAR on the first tape and random extras on the second. Never had it on Laserdisc.

Didn't VidJunkie and TeamBlu already release a T2 custom Blu-ray?

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RayRogers said:

Didn't VidJunkie and TeamBlu already release a T2 custom Blu-ray?

Yes we did, we did 1 for T1 and T2.

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TServo2049 said:

So it does seem there are 35mm prints out there with two different color palettes - the print Tyler saw, and seemingly the print that was camcorded on YouTube (more in line with the blue/orange of the video transfers, but possibly even more pushed to blue; possibly with the biker bar stuff having additional blue pushing that's not in the home transfers?), and the prints kaosjm and Beber saw (blue-blanket scenes less pure blue with more teal and purple, orange stuff is more yellow).

What they seem to have in common (with each other and with the IP/IPs used for home video) are that the night scenes are tinted/pushed - unlike the trailers - and the steel mill stuff is pushed, but to where/how far they are pushed seems to differ. The Wikipedia article on internegatives says that color timing is done between IP and IN - based on the answer print?

This is all so intriguing...

metall_havy sent me 2 copies of Terminator 2 sourced from 35mm. You can tell because they are 35mm source since they have lines, damage and reel changes. One copy has parts that matches up best with the BD. The other better matches with my test regrade. And both have parts that don't match up with either.If fact one of my questions has been the amount of purple in the film and both have it in spades but in different places. And there is various levels of green and levels of orange especially for the desert.

Here is an example of the hallway battle.

BD/Regrade/35mm Video 1/35mm Video 2/Super 8mm

This is all so confusing....

RayRogers said:

Since I own both the Skynet Blu (for the three cuts and extras) and the Van Ling No DNR 2015 Blu, it appears PDB's color timing would be what I'd want. 

 I'm using the 2015 BD as a base. Who knows if I'm right, just trying to figure out what T2 looks like without having a 35mm print. And Team Blu's version of Terminator were very nice.