logo Sign In

Post #786440

Author
John Doom
Parent topic
Implied starting date of the Empire from OT dialogue
Link to post in topic
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/786440/action/topic#786440
Date created
26-Aug-2015, 4:25 AM

Darth Id said:

-50
    The Republic becomes the Empire.
        "[...] in the Old Republic. Before the dark times,
        before the Empire."

This is a non sequitur

Nothing Ben says necessarily means that HE was personally present for the birth of the Empire, or personally remembers it.  He is just discussing a World That Was, that he may only have heard about from his trainer, as one of the dwindling followers of the Force.  He could have been trained in the Jedi arts by a rogue Jedi long after the Jedi Knights had been ousted as official guardians. 

It could have been generations of secretive, hermit-style heretical Jedi, who were always fighting on the side of the various oppositions to the Empire.  Plus Ben could have been 120, and could have trained Anakin when he was already 60.

    The Jedi Order is disbanded by the Emperor
        "the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice
        in the Old Republic. Before the dark times, before the Empire."
    The Jedi are persecuted
        ?
    Obi-wan flees in "exile" and assumes a new identity.
        "I haven't gone by the name Obi-Wan since oh, before you were born."

Again, you're unconsciously subscribing to PT plot-points that were not necessarily part of the SW backstory.  The Jedi Order could have been deposed generations earlier--they were no longer "guardians" of the established political order, but were instead outcasts and rogues, fighting on the side of Good.  The whole Clone Wars business could very well have been (and I actually think WAS) entirely a post-Imperial course of events.

Yes Ben fought with Leia's father, and then had to go into exile at some point afterward, but that doesn't mean it all happened in one big, pat, tidy singularity as the PT would have it.

Remember, SW was supposed to be a sprawling, sweeping world of Mystery & Magic, with ancient histories and dark secrets.  Only later did Georgie-poo decide to boil it all down to one narrow, obsessively focused domino chain.

As you can see, there are some lines followed by a "?" instead of a dialogue: those are basically guesses, because there are many plot holes and, as I said, it still needs some work :D

Ben says that they once were Jedi and that they fought the Clone Wars, so I think he actually worked for some time for the Republic as a Jedi. Hard to say why they were "exiled", but being the Emperor afraid of Vader (last jedi)'s sons makes me think that it was his decision, because he saw the Jedi as a threat to his power.

Unfortunately we don't know much about the Clone Wars, but if Ben with "crusade" means these wars, it may've been something he and Anakin approved and fought for. Hard to say.

Indeed Obi-wan working with the Organas could have happened after the Clone Wars. Hard to say. Also, changing his birth year to ">-70".

Domino chains sometimes make for good plots :D (except in ROTS....)

Frey said:

This is a really neat and concise outline. I have a question about it: Did Anakin go evil, spend decades as Darth Vader, and then conceive two children with "Mrs. Vader"? That's interesting. Most interpretations of the prequel timeline that I've read about have Mrs. Skywalker discover her pregnancy while Anakin is still a good guy and a loyal Jedi. Your interpretation shakes that up a bit! It puts a very different image in my mind of who the mother was if she knew she carried the children of the Dark Lord of the Sith.

That "50" was a leftover, I'm sorry :D I just turned it into a "?" (the year the Empire was enstablished is still unknown to us, though about 40-50 years before the OT is a good guess to me).

Yep, I think it may be that Anakin had spent some time as "Vader" before having his sons. There's no concrete proof, but Obi-wan says he had to hide the twins from their father and the Emperor. Why would he do that? My only guess is that he already was "Vader". This interpretation gives enough time to people to forget about the Jedi (in the OT), to Obi-wan to be more than 70-80 years old and change his name into Ben before Luke's birth.

If that's the case, I myself wonder why this happened and HOW (which reminds me of a certain "Space Truckers" scene :D)

P.S.: I just removed every line I couldn't prove yet.