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Info: The Look of Terminator 2 — Page 7

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Stamper said:

Yes, the back cover have the correct running time, but the actual master is speeded up for some reason. Also they reissued it since the LD was done before the Ellison settlement and Ellison threatened more with lawyers when he saw he wasn't included in it.

So you should notice the film is weird because of the speeded up pace (like it's in Pal or something), and you should notice the same soundmix, but with some weird stereo effects.

The full screen second LD by Image, the one with the gold disc logo on the front, is corrected and should feeature the correct film speed + untouched mono audio.

 

Well, as being from Germany, and mostly watched the movie in PAL, I won't notice PAL like speedup. :)

Okay, my Disc has no golden LD Logo on the front. So it seem to be this faulty first issue. I just watched the Police Station Fight, and on some cases it sounded weired in my opinion. Like some out of place screams and shots...

I think of getting a Soundcard with a Toslink optical input, because the Pioneer has an optical out, and I hope that way it would be easier to record the audio in better quality instead using just normal audio cables.

So the Full Screen Image LD is not that important to get, only if it has the first installement of the acknowledgement.

"I kill Gandalf." - Igor, Dork Tower

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 (Edited)

Here's what IMDB says:

There are significant differences between the first video releases (Thorn/EMI and HBO Video) and the 1991 Hemdale release in relation to picture, sound and end credits. The Thorn/EMI release has:

    • A blurry picture throughout



    • The entire film soundtrack played at the wrong pitch, which sounds like it was recorded on a cassette tape.



  • The Post Production and credit to Harlen Elison is inserted right above the copyright date and timed to roll along at the speed of the credits.

The HBO Video release has the same blurry picture and high pitch soundtrack with the following changes:

  • The post production credit rolls as soon as the movie fades to black. After disappearing, a black, cheaply done title card done with "1980s HBO Font" shows the Harlen Elison credit. The previous timed credit that appeared in the Thorn/EMI release has been blacked out and timed to run with the credits.

I don't know if the "HBO Video issue" refers to the first Image LD, or just the HBO Video VHS. Since it says it's still sped up, I presume it refers to the VHS. I wonder if there was a "stealth" repressing of the first LD (with the same SKU) to add the credit, or if the changes were only to the VHS versions.

I'm still interested in the first Image LD, because it may be a different transfer from the later Hemdale full-screen version (which was only on VHS, not LD). The first Image LD was the only pre-2001 U.S. transfer to start with the Orion logo, indicating it's different from the early-90s Hemdale versions which started with their logo.

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Too bad that the Full screen Image LD seems even harder to get, then the Thorn EMI release. But I'll keepy my eyes open. Seems to be something really interesting.

"I kill Gandalf." - Igor, Dork Tower

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Since the LD tracks are analog, a simple analog capture probably will be sufficient. However to track it and sync it, the video, even in low res, will be needed.

Curious to hear that mix/fix which is now lost in time.

I have the image DVD if you want, with the 2.1 mono track, which sounds great.

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Stamper said:

...

I have the image DVD if you want, with the 2.1 mono track, which sounds great.

 Thanks, but I am already awaiting this arrive this or next week at my home. I found it on eBay.

"I kill Gandalf." - Igor, Dork Tower

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who know?

R2 Japan - (Geneon/Studio Canal - Extreme Edition)

 
Comes in a steelbook, with embossed foil case and paper slipcase and with:
- a 127 page book containing chapter listings, additional footage notes and a usage guide for the "Enhanced Viewing Mode",
- a 18 page booklet with information on the differences between 4:3, 1:78:1 and 2:35:1 and using the "THX Optimode" feature.
This release is now OOP.
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 (Edited)

Stamper said:

Since the LD tracks are analog, a simple analog capture probably will be sufficient. However to track it and sync it, the video, even in low res, will be needed.

Curious to hear that mix/fix which is now lost in time.

...

 

At the Moment I am trying to rip the Thorn EMI/HBO LD to my PC.

The Sound of the Disc is not the best. could be my player, could be the age of the Disc and some scratches. But at the Moment It seems as if I get two Video Files (one for each side)... I will compress the video, but I do not know how well the complete files will be. But If I am finished I will check how to make them accessible to check it out.

Maybe I can upload a short sample to youtube upcoming week.

Edit: Anyone an easy to follow hint how to resync Audio and Video? I think the Audio is about a half a second behind the video in the final file. :(

"I kill Gandalf." - Igor, Dork Tower

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MrBrown said:

Stamper said:

Since the LD tracks are analog, a simple analog capture probably will be sufficient. However to track it and sync it, the video, even in low res, will be needed.

Curious to hear that mix/fix which is now lost in time.

...

 

...

Edit: Anyone an easy to follow hint how to resync Audio and Video? I think the Audio is about a half a second behind the video in the final file. :(

 

Never mind. It was easy with VCL as a help to check how many miliseconds the audio was off, and MKVmerge to remerge the MKV.

"I kill Gandalf." - Igor, Dork Tower

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Wow, this version really IS sped up, at the same percentage as PAL transfers. I put this against an actual PAL version, and the speed/pitch is identical.

I am wondering why this had PAL-style 4% speedup? The movie would have fit on a CLV LD and T-120 VHS regardless, there was no need for speedup shenanigans to fit it to a single tape/disc, like the original VHS of Superman or the original LD/CED of Star Wars.

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Awesome. This is indeed the fake stereo mix by Chace as mentioned. You can clearly hear the audio is widened left and right instead of being pure center as mono should be, plus it sounds like some additional sounds are layered on top of it in instances.

It would be awesome if you could make available a capture with the image, so that one can sync the audio back to the Blu-ray and pitch it back at the correct speed, it would be cool to have this weird mix preserved forever. It's part of Terminator history.

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Stamper said:

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It would be awesome if you could make available a capture with the image, so that one can sync the audio back to the Blu-ray and pitch it back at the correct speed, it would be cool to have this weird mix preserved forever. It's part of Terminator history.

 If you know someone able to do that... you got a PM.

"I kill Gandalf." - Igor, Dork Tower

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I don't get it,

LD from USA should be NTSC, and should not have PAL Speed Up.

I have a PAL LaserDisc Player and can only play PAL LDs.

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TServo2049 said:

Wow, this version really IS sped up, at the same percentage as PAL transfers. I put this against an actual PAL version, and the speed/pitch is identical.

I am wondering why this had PAL-style 4% speedup? The movie would have fit on a CLV LD and T-120 VHS regardless, there was no need for speedup shenanigans to fit it to a single tape/disc, like the original VHS of Superman or the original LD/CED of Star Wars.

 

In the 1950s, the Western European countries commenced planning to introduce colour television, and were faced with the problem that the NTSC standard demonstrated several weaknesses, including colour tone shifting under poor transmission conditions, which became a major issue considering Europe's geographical and weather-related particularities. To overcome NTSC's shortcomings, alternative standards were devised, resulting in the development of the PAL and SECAM standards. The goal was to provide a colour TV standard for the European picture frequency of 50 fields per second (50 hertz), and finding a way to eliminate the problems with NTSC.

PAL was developed by Walter Bruch at Telefunken in Hannover, Germany, with important input from Dr. Kruse and Gerhard Mahler (de). The format was patented by Telefunken in 1962, citing Bruch as inventor, and unveiled to members of the European Broadcasting Union (EBU) on 3 January 1963. The first broadcasts began in the United Kingdom in June 1967, followed by West Germany late that year.[1] The one BBC channel initially using the broadcast standard was BBC2, which had been the first UK TV service to introduce "625-lines" in 1964. Telefunken PALcolor 708T was the first PAL commercial TV set. It was followed by Loewe-Farbfernseher S 920 & F 900.

Telefunken was later bought by the French electronics manufacturer Thomson. Thomson also bought the Compagnie Générale de Télévision where Henri de France developed SECAM, the first European Standard for colour television. Thomson, now called Technicolor SA, also owns the RCA brand and licenses it to other companies; Radio Corporation of America, the originator of that brand, created the NTSC colour TV standard before Thomson became involved.

The term PAL was often used informally and somewhat imprecisely to refer to the 625-line/50 Hz (576i) television system in general, to differentiate from the 525-line/60 Hz (480i) system generally used with NTSC. Accordingly, DVDs were labelled as PAL or NTSC (referring to the line count and frame rate) even though technically the discs do not carry either PAL or NTSC composite signal. CCIR 625/50 and EIA 525/60 are the proper names for these (line count and field rate) standards; PAL and NTSC are only the method of transmitting color to the TV.

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 (Edited)

My point was that the movie was sped up by 4%, the same rate that a film's speed has to be increased to get a pulldown-free PAL transfer. (PAL transfers ran the film through the telecine at 25fps and picked it up at 50i, with a straight two fields per film frame, while NTSC transfers ran the film through the telecine at 24fps and applied 3:2 pulldown to get it to 29.97i.)

For this, they either converted a PAL transfer to NTSC, or just applied the same rate of 4% time compression to a native NTSC transfer. (Ironically enough, I think the actual original PAL transfers were different - I believe the original PAL video transfers kept the Orion logo, and didn't have the fake stereo.)

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That's the full-screen Image release we discussed earlier. It's mono, it's not time-compressed, but I don't know anything else about it beyond that.

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TServo2049 said:

That's the full-screen Image release we discussed earlier. It's mono, it's not time-compressed, but I don't know anything else about it beyond that.

 Ok, thanks.

So I have to check it out myself, as soon as that Disc arrives.

Mabe it is the fake stereo, too, but without speedup...

"I kill Gandalf." - Igor, Dork Tower

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 (Edited)

Uhm.. the seller states this in the headline "F/S" (I read it as "Full Screen". But interpretating the backside I would assume it is normal WideScreen. Also compared with the japanese Wide and Full Screen LD release Backsides and OBIs I cannot find any "Full Screen" clue on the coverimages at ebay.

Anyone know anything? it is a bit expensive to blind-dip it...

EDIT: ...nevermind the blind-dip part. I just realised it was sold while searching the web for informations on that.

EDIT 2: Comparing with backsides from other japanese Temrinator 2 releases it seems to be a widescreen Version. The Writing under the 16:9 Logo (was an indicator, but without any more information it also can be used as an "here is the box for the aspect ratio information) is the same as on the backside of another release explicitly stated as 16:9 widescreen...

"I kill Gandalf." - Igor, Dork Tower

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 (Edited)

MrBrown said:

Uhm.. the seller states this in the headline "F/S" (I read it as "Full Screen". But interpretating the backside I would assume it is normal WideScreen. Also compared with the japanese Wide and Full Screen LD release Backsides and OBIs I cannot find any "Full Screen" clue on the coverimages at ebay.

Anyone know anything? it is a bit expensive to blind-dip it...

EDIT: ...nevermind the blind-dip part. I just realised it was sold while searching the web for informations on that.

EDIT 2: Comparing with backsides from other japanese Temrinator 2 releases it seems to be a widescreen Version. The Writing under the 16:9 Logo (was an indicator, but without any more information it also can be used as an "here is the box for the aspect ratio information) is the same as on the backside of another release explicitly stated as 16:9 widescreen...

 teatrical cut

There is a similar issue,but pal 131min