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Info: The Look of Terminator 2 — Page 4

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The first LD was HBo was it not?

What about the German CAV set? was that from the later THX master?

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 (Edited)

Well TServo was nice enough to give me a copy of the German Terminator DVD. I just skimmed through so I didn't get to do a full analysis. The master is definitely poor and has a fuzzy, weak picture with dirt and derbies. It is also darker/contrast-er and looks like a release print would. Like Servo said it does have an old HK transfer look to it.

Having said that the colors are very interesting. Very interesting because of how close they match the remastered Terminator Blu-ray. Both have a green tone over the course of most of the movie and both lose it in what seems to be the same places. Its far from perfect but it is far closer in colors then the previous BD or DVDs to the BD. It definitely tonally matches the remastered BD.

I think Servo has already covered most of this but to me this points towards the remastered BD maybe having the right colors and the old BD and DVD video masters being wrong. It would be an odd coincidence for these two to look so similar. I beginning to think that the "new" colors for Terminator and Aliens are right or at least closer to the original theatrical release.

Thanks Servo for the copy

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So I assume you guys did not like how our T2 looked colorwise?

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Your T2 looked very good, actually. I certainly don't have a problem with it. I think it's the best colors you can get without definitive knowledge of how the colors looked in theaters.

I'd say that the TeamBlu is probably the best presentation of the classic "home video" color scheme of T2, superior to any of the official HD releases.

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TServo2049 said:

Your T2 looked very good, actually. I certainly don't have a problem with it. I think it's the best colors you can get without definitive knowledge of how the colors looked in theaters.

I'd say that the TeamBlu is probably the best presentation of the classic "home video" color scheme of T2, superior to any of the official HD releases.

Thanks, I was just curious is all, I think it looks fantastic myself but I am hugely biased lol.

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Thanks for the observations, PDB.

I still would say the BD has flaws - for example, the ending scene has the sky looking greenish. I don't care how much teal or green was in 80s prints, from the prints of other movies I've seen, clear daytime skies still didn't have the same color as styrofoam packing peanuts.

I'd love to see a regrade of the BD trying to approximate the German DVD colors, and keep the BD color scheme but take away the brightness/contrast/balance/tint issues that give it that modern revisionist look.

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I think TServo sums it up perfectly, the blue & orange home video look is what a lot of us have grown up with & are used to, but the evidence seems to suggest it looked differently in theatres at the time. It will be very interesting to see how the remastered blu-ray looks when it eventually appears - another good excuse to watch the film again as well!

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dark_jedi said:

So I assume you guys did not like how our T2 looked colorwise?

 What makes you say that? Yours looks great but you were hampered by the source 

PDBsaid:

Well TServo was nice enough to give me a copy of the German Terminator DVD. I just skimmed through so I didn't get to do a full analysis. The master is definitely poor and has a fuzzy, weak picture with dirt and derbies. It is also darker/contrast-er and looks like a release print would. Like Servo said it does have an old HK transfer look to it.

Having said that the colors are very interesting. Very interesting because of how close they match the remastered Terminator Blu-ray. Both have a green tone over the course of most of the movie and both lose it in what seems to be the same places. Its far from perfect but it is far closer in colors then the previous BD or DVDs to the BD. It definitely tonally matches the remastered BD.

I think Servo has already covered most of this but to me this points towards the remastered BD maybe having the right colors and the old BD and DVD video masters being wrong. It would be an odd coincidence for these two to look so similar. I beginning to think that the "new" colors for Terminator and Aliens are right or at least closer to the original theatrical release.

Thanks Servo for the copy

 The issue is not the teal in T1 is the piss poor way it was done digitally 

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dvdmike nails it, these digital remasters have color/balance problems that sort of cancel out a closer resemblance to the theatrical timing. (See also: The Neverending Story. The U.S. transfer may actually be closer to the theatrical timing than people give it credit, but it still has huge problems both with color and with brightness/contrast.)

With T2, I'm not so sure what's right. Beber and kaosjm describe one look, which lines up with those 8mm screenshots. But TylerDurden389 says he saw another print that still had the "blue blanket" over the night scenes that we're all used to.

And there's a 35mm screening clip on YouTube that still seems to have the blue/orange look, albeit more nuanced with some teal and yellow in it. Is it the print Tyler saw at his screening? Is it the print kaosjm saw at the Alamo Drafthouse?

I hope I get an opportunity to see a 35mm print. (Thankfully, there does not seem to be a DCP of T2 yet - and also, Sony/TriStar still handles U.S. theatrical distribution, so StudioCanal would have to send them a DCP master, much like how Disney sent the Blu-Ray transfer of The Muppet Movie to Universal - who still has the ITC theatrical rights - for purposes of DCP screenings.)

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And there is no 35mm print of T2 in the UK, there is a 70mm blow up tho

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Pretty sure I remember reading somewhere that most movies on videotape were given a warm push due to something with the color of the tube CRT tvs of the time. Either way, it looks like Cameron was a pioneer for modern day teal color timing on film. He did that ish decades before it became the standard.

I said it a while back either on this board or another one but regarding terminator, I no longer say "The original color timing", instead I say "the vhs/dvd color timing" lol. I guess being a product of the 80's and home video in general, I will simply just always prefer neutral color to film. I don't even like that the Matrix has green color whenever they're plugged in. Yeah, it's within the context of the film, I still don't care lol.

Don't worry Dark Jedi, even if the new remastered blu actually is accurate to the original print, I still prefer your version. I must've watched it at least 12 times in the past 3-4 months since first getting it :)

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His teal and this new digital teal are not the same colour

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TylerDurden389 said:

I don't even like that the Matrix has green color whenever they're plugged in.

Good, because that's not how it looked in theaters anyway. The green is pure revisionism; the whole "green" feeling came from the computer text stuff, got extrapolated into the sequels, and was retconned back into the first film for Blu-Ray.

Everyone "remembers" The Matrix being green/being associated with the color green, but they are as wrong as people who remember "Episode IV: A New Hope", or "To Be Continued..." at the end of Back to the Future.

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TServo2049 said:

Thanks for the observations, PDB.

I still would say the BD has flaws - for example, the ending scene has the sky looking greenish. I don't care how much teal or green was in 80s prints, from the prints of other movies I've seen, clear daytime skies still didn't have the same color as styrofoam packing peanuts.

I'd love to see a regrade of the BD trying to approximate the German DVD colors, and keep the BD color scheme but take away the brightness/contrast/balance/tint issues that give it that modern revisionist look.

 Agreed, the BD is not perfect but I think the German points to the fact they were going after theatrical colors not just making it up as they went along.

Sounds like an interesting project.

dvdmike said:

dark_jedi said:

So I assume you guys did not like how our T2 looked colorwise?

 What makes you say that? Yours looks great but you were hampered by the source 

PDBsaid:

Well TServo was nice enough to give me a copy of the German Terminator DVD. I just skimmed through so I didn't get to do a full analysis. The master is definitely poor and has a fuzzy, weak picture with dirt and derbies. It is also darker/contrast-er and looks like a release print would. Like Servo said it does have an old HK transfer look to it.

Having said that the colors are very interesting. Very interesting because of how close they match the remastered Terminator Blu-ray. Both have a green tone over the course of most of the movie and both lose it in what seems to be the same places. Its far from perfect but it is far closer in colors then the previous BD or DVDs to the BD. It definitely tonally matches the remastered BD.

I think Servo has already covered most of this but to me this points towards the remastered BD maybe having the right colors and the old BD and DVD video masters being wrong. It would be an odd coincidence for these two to look so similar. I beginning to think that the "new" colors for Terminator and Aliens are right or at least closer to the original theatrical release.

Thanks Servo for the copy

 The issue is not the teal in T1 is the piss poor way it was done digitally 

 Actually that was the issue. Most people still think the new BD is wrong and the new colors are revisionist. Evidence seems to point to the fact the BD might be closer to a theatrical print then the old BD, regardless of how close they got to the target. I 'm not arguing how well they did it just why they did it. I just want an accurate to theatrical print BD.

As with both we won't know until we get prints of both T1 and T2

And Edit: DJ your T2 looked great, its my default version but those are colors we know from years of home video, we are just trying to find out if that's how it looked in the theaters.

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TServo2049 said:

With T2, I'm not so sure what's right. Beber and kaosjm describe one look, which lines up with those 8mm screenshots. But TylerDurden389 says he saw another print that still had the "blue blanket" over the night scenes that we're all used to.

 Here's another Cameron messing with our heads: The Abyss.

Chinese DVD: http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/356010TheAbyssChineseDVD.jpg

Old so called HDTV: http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/389768TheAbyssoldHDTV.jpg

Remastered: http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/870718TheAbyssremastered.jpg

So, blue or pink?

Chinese DVD: http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/279904AbyssChineseDVD.jpg

Old so called HDTV:http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/324791AbyssoldHDTV.jpg

Remastered: http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/885243Abyssremastered.jpg

So, light or dark?

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Beber said:

TServo2049 said:

With T2, I'm not so sure what's right. Beber and kaosjm describe one look, which lines up with those 8mm screenshots. But TylerDurden389 says he saw another print that still had the "blue blanket" over the night scenes that we're all used to.

 Here's another Cameron messing with our heads: The Abyss.

Chinese DVD: http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/356010TheAbyssChineseDVD.jpg

Old so called HDTV: http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/389768TheAbyssoldHDTV.jpg

Remastered: http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/870718TheAbyssremastered.jpg

So, blue or pink?

Chinese DVD: http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/279904AbyssChineseDVD.jpg

Old so called HDTV:http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/324791AbyssoldHDTV.jpg

Remastered: http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/885243Abyssremastered.jpg

So, light or dark?

 There are some more comparisons in the Abyss thread

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I'm sure there are. I'm just wondering, because of the yellow or orange steel factory in T2, if we're not in the exact same case with the blue or pink light below in The Abyss. It's hard to tell with Cameron what's wrong and what's right.

Regarding the non-existing DCP for T2, the theater I'll see it next tuesday annouces it to be a digital projection:

http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/716413Terminatormarathon.jpg

See? All 3 movies of the "marathon" are announced as "numérique", which is French for digital.

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OK, maybe I was wrong. I wonder if it will just be the old master that every Blu-Ray is based on...

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Stamper said:

Kaos, what was the general color in the biker bar at the opening? I remember it not being as brown as the DVD, more Blue like. Saw it 14 times on year of release, so I'm certain Cameron changed this for the VHS/LD and all the other versions.

On YouTube there is a compilation of camcorded footage from a fairly recent 35mm screening (within the last couple years), one of the clips is the biker throwing his keys to the T-800, and it looks way more blue/teal than any home version I've ever seen.

Again, I hope I get to see a print someday. (The reopening of the New Mission under Alamo Drafthouse management can't come soon enough...I hope San Francisco will get more 35mm revival screenings.)

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Beber said:

I'm sure there are. I'm just wondering, because of the yellow or orange steel factory in T2, if we're not in the exact same case with the blue or pink light below in The Abyss. It's hard to tell with Cameron what's wrong and what's right.

Regarding the non-existing DCP for T2, the theater I'll see it next tuesday annouces it to be a digital projection:

http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/716413Terminatormarathon.jpg

See? All 3 movies of the "marathon" are announced as "numérique", which is French for digital.

 It's the bluray, same they do in the UK 

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That sucks. Reminds me of when I saw a Fathom screening of Ghostbusters that I'm pretty sure was the Blu-Ray version blown up (not even the 2K source master, literally just 1080p on a theater screen).

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I actually saw the 4K DCP of Ghostbusters last october or november for its 30th anniversary in that very same theater where I'll see T1 + T2 + Genisys next tuesday. I surely hope they won't just show the Blu-ray of T2. I'm pretty sure that a few months back, in another theater, they showed the Blu-ray of Forrest Gump. It was very disappointing. Even the subtitles looked like the way they are on Blu-ray. That's actually what convinced me that it was the Blu-ray they showed on the big screen. I would much prefer that they show T2 on 35 mm if it's not a brand new remastered DCP. In fact, now that you said that, I hope they made a mistake when they announced "numérique".

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dvdmike said:

The first LD was HBo was it not?

What about the German CAV set? was that from the later THX master?

 The German CAV LaserDiscs for T1 and T2 were from VCL, too. So I assume they use the same master, as the DVDs.

"I kill Gandalf." - Igor, Dork Tower

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mumbles_ said:

dvdmike said:

The Skynet 100% had a DNR pass, the new disc that came out this week is missing this pass.

The issue with T2 is theEE baked mess of a master they use, its from 2003 and was not well done even then.

The UK optimum disc is still the best looking, but is fromt hat same old tired master.

 I thought the Japanese 'Premium Edition' of T2 was the best looking one available. Is the UK Optimum blu-ray the same quality or better?

The JP is better encoded, but it looks worse than the UK IMO because it uses the vertically-stretched master with softened detail due to the rescaling.

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drngr said:

mumbles_ said:

dvdmike said:

The Skynet 100% had a DNR pass, the new disc that came out this week is missing this pass.

The issue with T2 is theEE baked mess of a master they use, its from 2003 and was not well done even then.

The UK optimum disc is still the best looking, but is fromt hat same old tired master.

 I thought the Japanese 'Premium Edition' of T2 was the best looking one available. Is the UK Optimum blu-ray the same quality or better?

The JP is better encoded, but it looks worse than the UK IMO because it uses the vertically-stretched master with softened detail due to the rescaling.

 Got it in one