That. Was. Amazing.
Aside from problems others mentioned, my main complaint is that the audio is out of sync. In VLC I set it to -200ms. That was for the main part of the preview though. For the trailer, I had to set it close to +200ms.
Still, that was a pretty amazing experience.
Nobody sang The Bunny Song in years…
While I very much appreciate the preview, I have to agree with Harmy. I am finding it hard to see past the compression artefacts.
I've just watched the preview, and i have to mirror what Harmy said. But i can't understand why the compression is as bad as it is. The bitrate is certainly not low enough for it to affect it this bad. It's almost as if its been encoded from a second generation , highly compressed source. Checking the bitrate info its reported as an overall bitrate of 20mb/s. So at that bitrate , most of the detail should still be there.
It seems like you spliced two sources together for the scroll from the way the stars just fade out after the crawl disappears. If you are having to splice two sources together, it would be better to wait until it at least starts to pan down, or try to recover the stars, because the fade between them is way too noticeable.
I have to agree with Ady here as well, if I can ask what encoder are you guys using? hell when the time comes if you guys need help encoding we would surely help you guys out if needed, I actually told -1 this a very long time ago.
Thanks for the sample though, it still was pretty cool to see it.
Hi everyone, thanks for the comments. We understand issues with the detail being low.
We will have a another, hopefully improved preview, using replacement shots for a lot of the darker sequences. And will work on the encoder settings, to improve those for more detail.
We still have a way to go before we consider having a workprint preview.
We will definitely consider your advice as we continue. The next preview should be out in a few weeks.
Thanks again for everyone taking the time to check it out.
Team Negative1
I enjoyed the preview, but I also am a bit disappointed by the lossy look. It seems like many of the previews of reel 1 over the years have looked mushy like this, but some have looked better - I have an old 1080p preview of the crawl/flyover, a 25Mbps MOV file, and while it didn't have the cleanup, it looks clearer and more of the grain structure is intact. I'm flicking through the same frame on both, and some of the faint stars looked brighter and clearer in that old preview, for one example.
Can you try the same encoder/bitrate you used for the ESB Grindhouse? That looked nice and crisp. Not trying to be overly critical, I'm just trying to be constructive. You guys still did a great job with this preview, but I know you can do even better.
Personally, I think it looked amazing on the Tantive, but the stuff on Tatooine looked a bit rough.
Regardless, watching it still gave me the same feeling ESB Grindhouse, which I haven't felt in a long time. Can't wait for more.
I'm here to kick ass and watch Star Wars, and I'm all out of ass.
Great work on the preview Team1!
It's turning out amazing, and with the final pass, it will look even more fantastic, no doubt about it! I'm just thrilled "Star Wars" will finally be enjoyed in film quality....and bring back those old childhood memories!
Just to clarify, we do not have a list or any emails from AMPS members, reddit, or fanres.com.
Thanks
Team Negative1
Update: As another milestone, Reel 4 has been finished cleaning.
The entire movie is going through the first pass. We are making our second workprint now, and a third one will come later with replacement shots.
The movie is starting to take shape, and looks great.
At some point, blog members will be considered for the workprints.
Also, we are considering mailing a disc for those that contributed to our project.
Thanks
Team Negative1
I'd say despite all the minor flaws discussed previously (although as an initial preview it wasn't supposed to be perfect in the first place), the first preview looks absolutely marvelous! I was really happy to see that this project is heading forward and the final result should be really cool. You guys rock!
People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an exercise of power are barbarians, and if the laws of the United States continue to condone this behavior, history will surely classify us as a barbaric society.
Have you guys considered it might be the digital cleanup that causes the socalled compression problems (I'm also addressing the members who have seen the preview)? Considering what Adywan said, I find it hard to believe it is the actual compression that is the culprit. However, digital cleanup and compression have a lot in common. I'm reminded of this post, where the cleanup clearly destroyed a lot of detail:
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/team-negative1-star-wars-1977-35mm-theatrical-version-release-details-and-updates/post/771245/#TopicPost771245
Looking at that comparison, it is clear that apart from the obvious problem, a certain amount of depth and clarity appears to have been lost, although it is difficult to see at that resolution.
I think it might be a good idea for the team to post some screenshot comparisons at high quality to see what's been gained and what has been lost.
No, digital cleanup could eat up detail but not in this manner - it's clearly compression artifacts and I'm pretty sure that the heavy compression is already in the source of this encode.
Great workprint, I absolutely admire the work you guys put into restoring Star Wars and I think it clearly shows how great of a cleanup you did on the movie. Can't wait to see the final result:-)
However, I agree with Harmy on the matter of compression artifacts. There's so much blocking not only in dark scenes like the one in the canyon, but rather throughout the whole workprint, so much that it "eats up" a lot of the grain structure that would otherwise probably be visible.
By looking at the encoding settings (MediaInfo can do that) it is obvious that encoding speed has been a major goal, which comes as no surprise considering this is just a workprint. However, the settings could have been significantly optimised to achieve a better quality with less blocking and yet without a drastic slowdown. F.e. encoding with 1-pass constant bitrate as you did is much inferior to CRF mode quality-wise.
Thanks for comments again. We're not too concerned about compression settings or artifacts in the early previews.
Also, we'll post it for anyone else that wants to check it out, and see the cleanup work done on it, which is the focus. (Not the detail, as we've stated.)
We have already replaced the dark scenes and starfield shots, so thats taken care of also.
There will be another preview and thats all we have time for, before getting back to working on it.
We'll let you know when it's ready.
Team Negative1
Can you please put up an uncompressed version on a certain non-vital organ website? Artifacts get in the way of actually appreciating your work. You were able to do this with your Grindhouse Empire. Why not this?
I think it is not spleened because they want to keep it private for their followers at the moment.
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Exactly. This is just a quick private preview. We are moving on the improved versions, and there's no point in putting in 3 revisions that we are working on.
All you need is a quick preview, and then we'll move onto doing the polishing. We would rather work on actually improving it, than spend time posting links and previews. We've been doing that for 3 years now.
The cleanup was the biggest effort, and that's what we were emphasizing.
Team Negative1
team_negative1 said:
Exactly. This is just a quick private preview. We are moving on the improved versions, and there's no point in putting in 3 revisions that we are working on.
All you need is a quick preview, and then we'll move onto doing the polishing. We would rather work on actually improving it, than spend time posting links and previews. We've been doing that for 3 years now.
The cleanup was the biggest effort, and that's what we were emphasizing.
Team Negative1
The cleanup and the stabilization, for the most part, was impressive indeed! It is unfortunate that some scenes need to be re-scanned (or already have been) and presumably enter the cleanup process again.
You misunderstand our process. The files have only been cleaned once. The replacement shots are just drop ins.
We are not doing any more cleanup, besides minor fine tuning.
Team Negative1
Jan said:
By looking at the encoding settings (MediaInfo can do that) it is obvious that encoding speed has been a major goal, which comes as no surprise considering this is just a workprint. However, the settings could have been significantly optimised to achieve a better quality with less blocking and yet without a drastic slowdown. F.e. encoding with 1-pass constant bitrate as you did is much inferior to CRF mode quality-wise.
I haven't seen the preview but I'd just like to echo Jan's suggestion. CRF mode is designed specifically to be fast, efficient and high quality. If you're not aware of it, basically you set a quality level, with lower numbers being better, and CRF determines the lowest bitrate that can achieve that quality. Talking heads? Low bitrate. Explosions in the middle of a hurricane? High bitrate. It happens automatically and quickly, with only one pass. I've had great luck with it.
Keep up the great work! :)
What can you get a Wookiee for (Life Day) Christmas when he already owns a comb?
Thanks for keeping me in the loop! :)
The reel 1 preview is cold, undersaturated, and a bit dark, but is stable, spot-free (aside from the infamous burn marks & reel change cues, of course), and lovably grainy. :)
The crawl looks much nicer, though the edges (especially the right) are a bit darker than the rest of it.
Forward march! :)
ScruffyNerfHerder said:
I haven't seen the preview but I'd just like to echo Jan's suggestion. CRF mode is designed specifically to be fast, efficient and high quality. If you're not aware of it, basically you set a quality level, with lower numbers being better, and CRF determines the lowest bitrate that can achieve that quality. Talking heads? Low bitrate. Explosions in the middle of a hurricane? High bitrate. It happens automatically and quickly, with only one pass. I've had great luck with it.Keep up the great work! :)
CRF is not constant bitrate. I didn't see the preview, and I agree with you about CRF. :)
[ Scanning stuff since 2015 ]
The clean up in the preview looked great. It's awesome to see how far the project has come over the years.
Alright, where do I subscribe to this damn thing?