I like the way you think. :)
Recording it on Super VHS would be ideal. I could do it myself, but the DVD probably has macrovision.
Where were you in '77?
I can do it here to SuperVHS, but it would be PAL....
You could always make a copy of your DVD and then use the copy I guess if macrovision causes problems. Then destroy the copy :)
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Didn't George Lucas said in a documentary (from the Blu-ray and the 2004 DVD) that the 1971 cut by Warner Bros has the scene with the "freaks" placed at the beggining of the film, by saying "you should put the freaks scene up front"? I think I also remember him saying that it ended up creating an internal joke at American Zoetrope that whenever a studio messed with a director's original cut, they say the studio is "putting the freaks up front".
Presuming "freaks" means the shell dwellers attacking THX, it wouldn't make much sense unless they restructured the film as a flashback from that point, which is what the mysterious Italian cut does, beginning with the car chase already in progress.
I fear the Warner cut may remain an enigma.
Where were you in '77?
Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pn89wzyHQg0
Go to 4:57.
Also, about the 35mm IB print, prints like this ceased to exist in the USA after 1974. "The Godfather part II" was the last film to use this kind of print (I'd kill to get a scan of an existing print of it). However, it was still used in Europe for some years after (Star Wars IV has an IB print made in England). So, assuming this IB print from THX is made in USA, it certainly dates from before 1974. It could be the real deal... :)
@5:15 - LUCAS: "And I did have a bunch of meetings with the executives where they wanted to, ya know, take the end of the movie ... and put that at the head of the movie. ... Finally, they cut about five minutes out of it. You know, it didn't make any sense. ... We don't understand it. We don't want to understand it. But we know that if we cut five minutes out of it, it'll make it shorter."
Confirming Warner didn't make an Italian-like cut for the U.S. release, as suggested by other sources quoted here previously (some time ago).
The number on this Phantom Menace DTS disc can't be a coincidence...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DTS-THX-TEST-DISC-FOR-STAR-WARS-EPISODE-1-PHANTOM-MENACE-35mm-FILM-MEMORABILIA-/141681749984
Where were you in '77?
poita said:
Easiest way would be to output the Bluray via composite video and capture that, or run the composite video into an old VCR and record it, then capture *that*.
The 'hardware' downgrading will do most of the work for you.
It's not exactly what I would call easy. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the only BD device that can output composite are older models of the PS3. So in order to do what you are suggesting, you would need one of those older models.
our original guess about the Italian cut is that Warner may have experimented their idea of putting the end of the movie at the beginning when they released it in Italy. The little success of the film also in Italy perhaps made them rethink the whole thing for the other European releases.
Lucas might have never known about the Italian cut or more likely he just ignored it so his story of success against the evil Warner could sound even more successful.
I wish I had managed to talk to the director of the Italian dubbing (now deceased) to know if the narration was in the print they received from Warner or if it was an adaptation choice that they decided locally. From the way the Italian cut is structured, my guess is that they did have a narration also in English. The question is: did Duval do it? Would he remember doing it? It's all so bizarre.
AntcuFaalb said:
msycamore said:
I haven't seen the 16mm scope yet, currently downloading a 720p version, but it seems very likely that this is the same cut of the film as your other 16mm print, SilverWook. Which means that it's not the original 1971 release cut. The runtime and extended SEN scene suggest so.
If the 35mm re-release prints match the 16mm versions, it means that Lucas tinkered with the film for its home video debut in 1982.
I sent a message to poita. I think I remember that he had something that was more-or-less definitive in demonstrating it to be from 1971.
poita said:
The Kodak 16mm film edge codes place it in Rochester NY in 1971.
Ah yes, I recall that being mentioned over at the old AMPS. Damn, this print only produces more questions in my head.
As we know what Warner Brothers did to the film for its US release and this cut sure as hell doesn't match the stories over the years from the filmmakers and the info shared in Dale Pollock's Skywalking, the only realistic thing I could think of is that this is an 1971 "International cut" (UK). Perhaps the film wasn't butchered by the studio for the European release after all? But then why an American lab, maybe that's not unusual?
But the madness doesn't end there of course...
As I thought, this print contains the same cut as Silver's other 16mm print, which means a different order how certain scenes occur. See this post: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/THX-1138-preservations/post/665426/#TopicPost665426 and http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/THX-1138-preservations/post/588049/#TopicPost588049 for additional info.
Might perhaps be worth checking out how UK tapes released in the eighties compares, the UK letterboxed VHS I own (released in the nineties) match the US home video versions.
We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions.
Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com
I noticed that my laserdisc cuts from thx getting stunned and taken away to all the crazies in the white room but the 16mm cuts to thx getting messed with in the med room by the medical robots. anyone else notice this?
poita said:
Easiest way would be to output the Bluray via composite video and capture that, or run the composite video into an old VCR and record it, then capture *that*.
The 'hardware' downgrading will do most of the work for you.
That's a brilliant idea.
We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions.
Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com
ShaneLSD said:
I noticed that my laserdisc cuts from thx getting stunned and taken away to all the crazies in the white room but the 16mm cuts to thx getting messed with in the med room by the medical robots. anyone else notice this?
Yes, see the links in the post above yours. The different editing...
Scene order in Italian and German TV-broadcast and English 16mm prints:
Drug evasion arrest --> LUH visits THX --> THX gets medical examinations --> Trial & "pain prods" (electro-shock batons) scene --> THX is being monitored & researched --> THX put in prison
Scene order in English home video versions and 2004 Cut:
Drug evasion arrest --> Trial & "pain prods" (electro-shock batons) scene --> THX gets medical examinations --> THX is being monitored & researched --> LUH visits THX --> THX put in prison
We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions.
Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com
msycamore said:
poita said:
Easiest way would be to output the Bluray via composite video and capture that, or run the composite video into an old VCR and record it, then capture *that*.
The 'hardware' downgrading will do most of the work for you.
That's a brilliant idea.
I read somewhere that all the monitor displays in the recent game Alien: Isolation were given that 1979 look via a similar technique. :)
Where were you in '77?
msycamore said:
ShaneLSD said:
I noticed that my laserdisc cuts from thx getting stunned and taken away to all the crazies in the white room but the 16mm cuts to thx getting messed with in the med room by the medical robots. anyone else notice this?
Yes, see the links in the post above yours. The different editing...
Scene order in Italian and German TV-broadcast and English 16mm prints:
Drug evasion arrest --> LUH visits THX --> THX gets medical examinations --> Trial & "pain prods" (electro-shock batons) scene --> THX is being monitored & researched --> THX put in prison
Scene order in English home video versions and 2004 Cut:
Drug evasion arrest --> Trial & "pain prods" (electro-shock batons) scene --> THX gets medical examinations --> THX is being monitored & researched --> LUH visits THX --> THX put in prison
Oh Cool thanks sorry didnt see the links. I like the 16mm:
Drug evasion arrest --> LUH visits THX --> THX gets medical examinations --> Trial & "pain prods" (electro-shock batons) scene --> THX is being monitored & researched --> THX put in prison
since this thread has become a real monster to browse, maybe we should think of a way to summarize all the info collected so far on this film. A wiki perhaps? With source links directed to specific posts of this thread? I don't know, something like that.
Yes, we need to know everything that's happened up until now. ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MabLtuTpDw8
Where were you in '77?
Ahahahah!
ShaneLSD said:
Oh Cool thanks sorry didnt see the links. I like the 16mm:
Drug evasion arrest --> LUH visits THX --> THX gets medical examinations --> Trial & "pain prods" (electro-shock batons) scene --> THX is being monitored & researched --> THX put in prison
No problem. If I recall correctly that's the order the shooting draft had it in as well. The power of editing... it's fascinating that it works in both ways.
thxita said:
since this thread has become a real monster to browse, maybe we should think of a way to summarize all the info collected so far on this film. A wiki perhaps? With source links directed to specific posts of this thread? I don't know, something like that.
I could perhaps try to update the first post of the thread. More info have come to light since I wrote that.
Also, another difference is that this 16mm print lacks the Buck Rogers intro that was in place for its original US theatrical release.
We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions.
Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com
Msycamore, you are the most qualified for that!
According to IMDB, the original release had a clip from "Things to Come" (1936) instead of the Buck Rogers intro. Our 16mm has no intro at all...
Imdb info rely on users, that info came from the usual 2004 DVD documentary. I'm not saying it's false but anything that George Lucas says since 1997 should be always re-checked twice
LOL :) Lucas is the least reliable source of info for his own film. Maybe WB didn't even make such changes as he claims. Maybe they only suggested it...
phbart said:
According to IMDB, the original release had a clip from "Things to Come" (1936) instead of the Buck Rogers intro. Our 16mm has no intro at all...
Yeah, but we don't know the source of that. But we do have this:
We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions.
Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com