Star Wars Laserdisc Preservations. See 1st Post for Updates. — Page 16

OK, did my homeworks, found this:

http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Cx88_devices_%28cx2388x%29

with a list of cx23880 (or, better, cx2388X) cards; made a quick ebay search, and found this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121582305967

what do you think?

I dunno about that one. I think you need one with an s-video port.  I think Happycube will chime in with a definitive answer when he sees this.

Posted before your answer... what's about this?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/201323856719

That looks like the exact card I'm using. It might be a different revision number but it's the same card with the right chipset so it ought to work.  

I first tried using it on an old 2core amd box i had laying around and it didn't work right with the driver but I threw the card into my 4core amd box and it worked perfectly so be warned that hardware can cause issues.  If you use intel stuff I think you will have less of a problem with that kind of thing. Happycube's setup with an intel proc and mobo I think.

Good news! Now I have to open up one of my "spare" LD-V4300D, tap the RF out, NOT make a hole in the rear but use an unused BNC plug, then hope an old Intel E6400 dual core will suffice...

There is also another thing that could improve quality; the "phase inversion trick" (more info here); the results are astonishing:

http://s22.postimg.org/vm22a3rn3/picture_5_X.png

actually it's really a trick; third image used two consecutive frames, but it gives you the idea; I think it could be possible to implement it in the software... maybe...

althor1138 said:

Thanks for the information Andrea. I've found the THX PAL to be pretty "acceptable" compared to the ntsc versions too.  There is only 1 or 2 scenes where I have noticed it's effects.  The stormtroopers breaking through the blown up door on the tantive is one.  The laser bolts here show dvnr effects but not as bad as the ntsc versions.  They are rather good pressings as well with not very much rot or dropouts. I have the 97SE pal now too.  Someday I'd like to compare it's dvnr vs the other sources to see if it's any better.

Nice to hear that you didn't buy that set in vain then. According to Moth3r (and like you both mentioned) the PAL THX ANH had much less aggressive DVNR applied. However, ESB is supposed to be even worse than the NTSC counterpart. Some old discussions and pics left in this thread: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/DVNR-smearing-in-GOUT-not-in-the-master-Or-is-the-1995-release-a-different-master-altogether/topic/11856/page/2/

Here is a comparison clip of the pre-thx french pressing vs. the thx french pressing.  I've adjusted levels,cropped, and adjusted the frame rate to 24fps.  There is no sound.  PW=OT

EDIT: It's probably re-encoded by vimeo but it's just to give an idea of what the two releases generally look like.

Forgive me if I am wrong, but I am guessing that the since your video is called 94 vs 95, the THX version is the Faces?

The most obvious difference is that the pre thx has french titles, while the thx has english ones. If the ladder is a french release, how was it handled? Voiceover for the titles and crawl? Subtitles?

The THX print seems to be a little clearer (naturally) and you could see the starfield better. However, C-3P0 seems to look more gold in the pre thx version. I don't even know what color he is in the THX. My first guess (which I am sure is wrong) is "lemon".

I could be wrong, but the scene where the star destroyer tractors the Tantive IV in seems smoother in the pre thx version.

Those are my two cents. Both have flaws, but both have things the other lack that make them better.

I guess you could say this is the "FACES" release for PAL-land but the covers were different. It had subtitles for the crawl (out of picture) and a French dub. There is another French THX release which has an english track with french subs for the whole film.

I guess 3-PO looking like a lemon is just the contrast of the pre-thx pressing because it looks basically like the DC/FACES releases except with higher resolution. The pre-thx print also has red fading which largely affects his color. Also, vimeo has smoothed both videos out a bit.  The pre-thx laserdisc has a LOT of noise in the picture and some scenes have pretty severe chroma issues.

If I were going to do a PAL preservation I'd definitely use the THX release for most of it.  I have about 4 or 5 separate pressings of it also which should allow for some good denoising/dropout removal.

Like you said though, the pre-thx laserdisc has things worthy of preserving too such as the original french crawl.  I just noticed that it has no episode IV so that's cool. Perhaps the dubbing is different from the Thx release too?

I've only watched SW.  I haven't checked out ESB or ROTJ yet.  I've heard that ESB is DVNR'ed worse than the NTSC gout. I think in general though SW is a step up in most areas. It has less DVNR and there is a bit more resolution so the starfields don't disappear or twinkle like crazy. Not sure about EE though. 

A PAL decoder/comb would probably unlock more detail than what the s315 does for sure.  I think it's comb filter is bascially the simplest and cheapest they could find. Have you had any luck capturing PAL RF via a NTSC player yet?  I think my HF9G captures a cleaner signal than the s315.

Happycube, eagerly awaiting your future tests with PAL! (^^,)

althor1138 said:

I guess you could say this is the "FACES" release for PAL-land but the covers were different. It had subtitles for the crawl (out of picture) and a French dub. There is another French THX release which has an english track with french subs for the whole film.

I guess 3-PO looking like a lemon is just the contrast of the pre-thx pressing because it looks basically like the DC/FACES releases except with higher resolution. The pre-thx print also has red fading which largely affects his color. Also, vimeo has smoothed both videos out a bit.  The pre-thx laserdisc has a LOT of noise in the picture and some scenes have pretty severe chroma issues.

If I were going to do a PAL preservation I'd definitely use the THX release for most of it.  I have about 4 or 5 separate pressings of it also which should allow for some good denoising/dropout removal.

Like you said though, the pre-thx laserdisc has things worthy of preserving too such as the original french crawl.  I just noticed that it has no episode IV so that's cool. Perhaps the dubbing is different from the Thx release too?

 Just to let you know, there is only one French dub. Even for the special edition, they kept the same dub, but had a new actor (poorly) add in the new lines for the extra Han Solo scene. 

...wow...wow...W-O-W!!!

Resolution is GREAT! Now we need a bit of color... (^^,)

Keep up, you are making a wonderful job - our Star Wars PAL laserdiscs are patiently waiting to be captured using your software...

@althor1138: can't remember if you have this:

http://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/00008

I wonder if the 11 minute EP2 making of is available on DVD or BD; if not, it will be great to capture it with Happycube method!

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

@althor1138: can't remember if you have this:

http://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/00008

I wonder if the 11 minute EP2 making of is available on DVD or BD; if not, it will be great to capture it with Happycube method!

 Yup. Picked it up a couple of months ago.  I have listed everything I have on the first post of this thread.  I plan on preserving it all with happycube's software.

Thanks! Hope to watch it soon, I'm very curious!

@Happycube: CapableMetal has kindly provided me a brief clip taken with your method, and I must say I'm really impressed!

There are two little problems...

Output is 744 pixel wide, and seems cropped at the sides; would it be possible to obtain a full wide output, and let the user decide the width?

Some residual chroma noise; is it possible to get two samples for each frame, one with chroma phase at 0°, the other at 180°, then merge them, to wipe out chroma noise? Or, if not, to let the user decide the chroma phase - something like chromaphase=true will be 0°, while chromaphase=false will be 180°.
Sorry if it seems I'm asking to much - again, your software is great as it is now, but if it could be improved a bit, it will be (nearly?) perfect!

No, thanks to you!!! Hurrah! - no such emoticons, but should be something like this: L(^^,)J

Color burst... can't help myself to use it, but I'm pretty sure some avisynth master would be able to use it to stabilize the picture, even if probably it would not need it - you have a TBC IIRC...

Resolution: as LD is analog, I think the more, the better; I mean, vertical resolution is fixed, but it could be possible to use higher horizontal resolution, to try to capture "in between" lines, a sort of sub-pixel... or maybe I'm going mad, dunno...

Is it possible to invert phase? I mean, it's always possible to eliminate dot crawls and rainbows in software, but if the inversion phase is feasible, I prefer to do two captures, and average them somehow, to get rid of chroma noise, retaining all the luma resolution... am I right?

If you process the signal in the YIQ domain, which will be the colorspace used for the final result? Just curious... can't wait to see a SuperNTSC title captured with this method!