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I see this thread has devolved into showing frame after frame of over-sharpening artifacts.
-G
Luke threw twice…maybe.
Star Wars GOUT in HD using super resolution algorithm (* unfinished project *) — Page 14
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I see somebody who has nothing constructive to contribute...
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He is right though. While there has been some detail recovered, everything looks plasticized and speckled throughout are oversharpening artifacts. Imo, this would look better if the grain was not removed(or at least added back in during the last steps of processing) and any sharpening involved was toned down to the point where ringing is not visible.
EDIT: Also, the aliasing is actually worse in some shots than before.
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It's hard to get a true gauge on the aesthetics with just stills - plus depending on the means we view them with - different people have different reactions. So far - this is super impressive. Am looking forward for the chance to watch.
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althor1138 said:
He is right though. While there has been some detail recovered, everything looks plasticized and speckled throughout are oversharpening artifacts. Imo, this would look better if the grain was not removed(or at least added back in during the last steps of processing) and any sharpening involved was toned down to the point where ringing is not visible.
EDIT: Also, the aliasing is actually worse in some shots than before.
This is why a laserdisc source should be added to the mix, one that is free of these problems in the first place. That way we can have the best of both worlds.
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
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NeverarGreat said:
althor1138 said:
He is right though. While there has been some detail recovered, everything looks plasticized and speckled throughout are oversharpening artifacts. Imo, this would look better if the grain was not removed(or at least added back in during the last steps of processing) and any sharpening involved was toned down to the point where ringing is not visible.
EDIT: Also, the aliasing is actually worse in some shots than before.
This is why a laserdisc source should be added to the mix, one that is free of these problems in the first place. That way we can have the best of both worlds.
That is a tall order but one of us might pull it off some day:).
Laserdiscs often have ringing due to the analog nature of decoding the signal before digitization so the gout is probably a better candidate for sharpening than most any laserdisc preservation that I've ever seen. I have a feeling that the aliasing problem would still be somehwhat present as well because this super-resolution is probably using motion compensation that breaks things down into blocks and then copies those blocks within the thresholds over onto the frame and things don't always line up perfectly.
EDIT: Btw, I'm not saying the idea of super-resolution is crap. I think that more moderate settings would probably produce better results.
Luke threw twice…maybe.
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No sharpening has actually been applied. Like any digital restoration tool super resolution leaves it's marks. However, to only focus on a methods artifacts, while playing down it's virtues is like throwing out the baby with the bath water.
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@ althor1138
The ringing is actually not due to sharpening. The ringing itself is already present in the GOUT. However, because it is literally everywhere, it is present around objects in each frame, and therefore the super resolution assumes it is part of the object and it get's enhanced. Sadly, there's no way around this. The same is true for some of the aliasing. This is also present around objects across frames and under certain circumstances gets enhanced like the ringing. These artifacts are unfortunate, but that is the price for a significantly higher resolution.
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So, what happened to releasing this project this week?
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@ stretch009
Sadly, the release has been postponed a bit. The version I'm working on get's rid of the GOUT's excessive grain. The different grain levels in different scenes forces me to optimize the noise filter on a scene by scene basis. Today I finished the first 30.000 frames. Hopefully I wil have the remaining 144.000 frames finished at the start of next week. So, it may take a week or two before Star Wars is finished. However, it is worth the wait. I'm preparing a 4 min sample that should be available here tomorrow.
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Although I too agree that there can be the appearance of over-sharpening and too much grain reduction, I am very impressed with this method of gaining additional detail from the GOUT. I don't own the GOUT DVD's, but I have owned the Definitive Collection LaserDisc set since its release in 1993. It's pretty incredible to see the additional detail that can be recruited. I hope that some strategy can be attempted that can keep the gain in true detail while also quelling the aliasing. Perhaps after rendering, two methods can be combined in a video mix using blending modes or something similar.
If your crop is water, what, exactly, would you dust your crops with?
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@ althor1138 & camroncamera
Here's a screenshot comparison, where I've added back some of the GOUT grain.
Super resolution v7 vs super resolution v7 + grain:
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/123776
Avisynth SplineResize vs super resolution v7 + grain:
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/123777
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DrDre said:
The noise reduction you have applied to this shot to remove the grain makes it look more smeared than it was before. I'm not convinced that applying more noise reduction to a source that has already suffered from noise reduction before is the way to go. It seems a bit like you're fighting fire with fire.
Don't forget that the excessive grain is part of the detail now, and in removing it you are inevitably softening the image further. If you were going to soften the image in this way, it would be nice if it were the result of anti-aliasing, but the aliasing still remains and the image looks less impressive. Your earlier, more subtle efforts were looking really impressive, though. I'd like to see those in motion to see how they look.
EDIT: Your post above looks much better, but beware of applying noise reduction to the GOUT. You will often end up with aritfacts and patches of grain on the image that can be far worse than just having the grain.
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@ CapableMetal
Here's a comparison with all of the grain put back in:
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/123779
I agree that it looks far more natural.
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I have to agree with the critics, it does look a whole lot better with the grain put back in during the last step of processing. Here's another example:
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Here are a few more examples from the first scenes of Star Wars:
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/123815
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/123822
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/123823
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I've decided to follow the critics suggestions. I'm keeping the grain. So the high definition GOUT will look the way you remember it only with a significantly higher resolution, and therefore more detail. It will sadly also have some enhanced ringing and aliasing as some of you noted, but that's a price I'm willing to pay for the higher resolution. I'm preparing a movie sample as we speak. It will take another few hours before it's finished, so please be patient ;-).
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To my eyes, everything looks much more natural with the grain still intact plus it hides some of the ringing. I look forward to your video samples
Luke threw twice…maybe.
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@ lpd
I've tested the up and downscaling of The Force Awakens teaser and sadly it didn't have a noticable effect.
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Yes, even downsampling (1080p -> SR 4k -> Spline64 1080p) a Blu-Ray does not show any noticable difference. So it's not only because of YouTube.
I tried this today when experimenting for a project, but with AOTC:
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/123910
Best results are at the weapon's scope. Overall it introduces banding at gradients through more random noise, take a look at the edges of the first soldier's hat. Although AOTC and that frame might not be the ideal test subject.
Darth Id on ‘Why “Ben”?’:
And while we’re at it, we need to figure out why they kept calling Mark Hamill’s character “Luke Skywalker,” since it’s my subjective opinion that his name is actually Schnarzle Shnuzzle. It just doesn’t make sense!
Damn you George Lucas for never explaining why they all keep calling Schnarzle “Luke”!
Damn You!!!
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Here are two examples of a 4K upscale for the Star Wars blu ray with super resolution v7. You can see the enhanced detail in the soldiers faces:
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Here finally is the video sample for super resolution v7.
Upscale with the Avisynth Spline64Resize:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8_LYKyZDiajcW5jVVBHVWxnT28/view?usp=sharing
Upscale with super resolution v7:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8_LYKyZDiajLXA2S3MyUWF3V00/view?usp=sharing
Please download for full quality.
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That latest video sample sealed the deal for me, that's incredible. The detail level is incredible, and the natural grain structure looks very good. Colors appear to be slightly better than the standard GOUT, and contrast appears to be the same.
I think you nailed it on the head DrDre, excellent work!
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In that newest sample just something that stood out to me is that in a number of the shots with a starfield backdrop, the stars tend to kind of flicker and dance around. Some randomly disappear and some randomly appear. I think this may have something to do with the process of using neighboring frames and (at least for me) it was pretty distracting.
All in all it is a tremendous accomplishment strictly in the improved detail.
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DrDre said:
I've decided to follow the critics suggestions. ... It will sadly also have some enhanced ringing and aliasing as some of you noted, but that's a price I'm willing to pay for the higher resolution.
"I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark, from Iron Man
Of course, you may want to have just the Super Resolution, but I have successfully tried "de-ringing" with DeHalo_alpha() at the Edge Enhancement Removal thread. The second of my two entries demonstrates almost magical removal of a mild version of that anomaly without affecting the rest of the picture. (Avisynth script is in the first entry, under the more sever "ringing".)