Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * SPOILER THREAD * — Page 112

I've often wished that the new movies would mine the best parts of the EU for inspiration, and it seems that whether inspired or not, certain things have aligned fairly closely (ish) with the game The Old Republic, in particular with regard to the ancient Sith Empire in the game.

Of course, a flag hanging isn't unique to that game. It's very naziesque as well...but still it's strikingly similar. Also, both symbols are hexagonal!. The use of red, with that symbol, as well as the ominous name "The First Order" to me, makes it seem more like a Sith cult than a straight dictatorship.

Likewise the use of red lighting in high tech interiors seems quite satanic, and again aligns with the moody interiors in the Sith Capital in The Old Republic.

My bet would be that they're settling here because it's some sort of ancient Sith world. The base seems to be built into the rock (as you can see the red light is casting on stone). Perhaps they're excavating whatever was there before, long buried beneath the snow.

Speaking of buried beneath the snow, here's Hoth in the same game. A similar ship graveyard concept to what we see with Jakku in the trailer.

Finally, I've always thought that Kylo Ren's mask drew inspiration from Darth Revan from the preceding Knights of the Old Republic games. I'm not complaining. It's a great design.

^Some of your pictures aren't working.

RicOlie_2 said:

^Some of your pictures aren't working.

 How about now?

****ing technocrats.

brash_stryker said:

RicOlie_2 said:

^Some of your pictures aren't working.

 How about now?

 That's better.

Expanding further on the hexagonal symbol. It's not outside the realms of possibility that Lucasfilm have taken a shine to this symbol and imagery and want to use it. Afterall, the EU isn't off limits if they see something they like. 

The game is set 4,000 years before the movies, and this is the symbol for the ancient Sith Empire of that time. 




It's sort of a precursor to the Galactic Empire symbol. They have similar designs except the obvious different basic shapes.

I don't know about you guys, but the symbol on the flag in the trailer seems to be a hybrid of the two designs to me. It utilises a circle within a hexagon, with a 'spoked' design just like the others.
Could this be symbolic of the Imperials/Sith returning to their roots?

I know this idea relies on Lucasfilm referencing the symbol from SWTOR (those who know the game will get it, those that don't won't care), but it just seems too perfect to me to be coincidence. 

EDIT: Also, it's worth noting that despite being technically non-canon now (being EU) it's still a thriving MMORPG that's making them money. Tying elements of a game in with their new movies for the purpose of cross-promotion (even if its something as insignificant as the origins of a symbol) is exactly the kind of thing Disney/Lucasfilm would do. In fact they're doing just that already with the upcoming DLC for Battlefront that shows the player the battle that left all those derelicts on Jakku.

brash_stryker said:

Expanding further on the hexagonal symbol. It's not outside the realms of possibility that Lucasfilm have taken a shine to this symbol and imagery and want to use it. Afterall, the EU isn't off limits if they see something they like. 

The game is set 4,000 years before the movies, and this is the symbol for the ancient Sith Empire of that time. 




It's sort of a precursor to the Galactic Empire symbol. They have similar designs except the obvious different basic shapes.

I don't know about you guys, but the symbol on the flag in the trailer seems to be a hybrid of the two designs to me. It utilises a circle within a hexagon, with a 'spoked' design just like the others.
Could this be symbolic of the Imperials/Sith returning to their roots?

I know this idea relies on Lucasfilm referencing the symbol from SWTOR (those who know the game will get it, those that don't won't care), but it just seems too perfect to me to be coincidence. 

I've always hated the resemblence of the Sith Empire's symbol to the Galactic Empire's symbol because:

1. Why would Palpatine use ancient Sith symbols rather than do his own thing? Palpatine has no respect for anyone besides himself.

2. Wasn't Palpatine hiding that he was a Sith? If you're hiding the fact that you're a Nazi, you wouldn't publicly use a swastika.

3. It undermines an irony that I love: that the Galactic Empire is the very Republic that Obi-Wan remembers so fondly.

darklordoftech said:

brash_stryker said:

Expanding further on the hexagonal symbol. It's not outside the realms of possibility that Lucasfilm have taken a shine to this symbol and imagery and want to use it. Afterall, the EU isn't off limits if they see something they like. 

The game is set 4,000 years before the movies, and this is the symbol for the ancient Sith Empire of that time. 




It's sort of a precursor to the Galactic Empire symbol. They have similar designs except the obvious different basic shapes.

I don't know about you guys, but the symbol on the flag in the trailer seems to be a hybrid of the two designs to me. It utilises a circle within a hexagon, with a 'spoked' design just like the others.
Could this be symbolic of the Imperials/Sith returning to their roots?

I know this idea relies on Lucasfilm referencing the symbol from SWTOR (those who know the game will get it, those that don't won't care), but it just seems too perfect to me to be coincidence. 

I've always hated the resemblence of the Sith Empire's symbol to the Galactic Empire's symbol because:

1. Why would Palpatine use ancient Sith symbols rather than do his own thing? Palpatine has no respect for anyone besides himself.

2. Wasn't Palpatine hiding that he was a Sith? If you're hiding the fact that you're a Nazi, you wouldn't publicly use a swastika.

3. It undermines an irony that I love: that the Galactic Empire is the very Republic that Obi-Wan remembers so fondly.

I'm not suggesting it's a good idea. I'm just putting my cynical 'Disney Executive' hat on and trying to discern the possible reason for the similarity. It may be they've taken a shine to it and want to give a nod to it with this similar one, signifying rebirth. It could be that Disney loves money and sometime soon there'll be a 'Visual guide' book accompanying TFA that explains the provenance of the symbol and that it can be traced back to the Ancient Sith Empire. *hint hint* Buy our game, kids!

I've got a question about the distribution of the new trilogy for anybody in the know.  Now that Disney owns everything Star Wars will they partner with 20th Century Fox to release the film or is that iconic logo and fanfare forever gone from the start of all the films as well as any future DVD releases of past films?

Also, will Disney hold tradition and not show credits at the beginning of the films and wait until the final crawl to give everyone their due or will we see names plastered everywhere during the action?

I also hope Abrams holds the Star Wars tradition of wipes when transitioning from one scene to another.

I'm hoping for nothing but star wipes.

I've got a question about the distribution of the new trilogy for anybody in the know.  Now that Disney owns everything Star Wars will they partner with 20th Century Fox to release the film or is that iconic logo and fanfare forever gone from the start of all the films as well as any future DVD releases of past films?

No Fox fanfare or logo. Sorry, pal!

Also, will Disney hold tradition and not show credits at the beginning of the films and wait until the final crawl to give everyone their due or will we see names plastered everywhere during the action?

I think tradition will be held, but we won't know for sure until December.

I also hope Abrams holds the Star Wars tradition of wipes when transitioning from one scene to another.

 Oh boy, that'll be fun.

If it hadn't already been strenuously denied that he'd be involved, I'd swear the music in this trailer is a Michael Giacchino arrangement of the Williams themes. The rising scale is very much his style.

imperialscum said:

Gorilla said:

Also, will Disney hold tradition and not show credits at the beginning of the films and wait until the final crawl to give everyone their due or will we see names plastered everywhere during the action?

Putting credits at the beginning of the film is so annoying. I don't understand why everyone is still doing that crap.

 Yeah, you can totally see where the simian was talking about all movies and not just Star Wars.

Ronster said:

SilverWook said:

No problem. And it took my brain this long to notice the ROTJ homage in that shot. Considering I hated the snap zooms and shaky cam on the BSG reboot, that zoom oddly doesn't bother me at all.

First Order... Wasn't the Empire called "First Choice" in Backstroke of The West? ;)

 The Shaky Cams and Snaps zooms never really bothered me with the BSG reboot because I saw it as a totally new *product*

Because this film is meant to be a sequel, I think they should tone down what they CAN do today to fit in a bit more with what could not be done when the original came out.

It's not to say I don't see the success in what they are achieving I have to say I am actually rather optimistic about all that I have seen so far I really like everything else about the sequence I have seen apart from that weird camera move as the falcon does the loop and the snap zoom.

I am not nit picking either I think if they could give it back the sweeping and gracious moves we are used to, I think it would be an  all out winner it's the only fear I have that there could be a lot of this type of stuff?... There might not be however.  Let's just wait and see... I give it a very good stamp overall.

I'm hoping that the shaky cam and zoom snaps are used sparingly.  We did see a sweeping shot early so we've got too little to really say how much will be one or the other stylistically.

All I know is I still get the chills every time I watch the trailer.  

Jonno said:

If it hadn't already been strenuously denied that he'd be involved, I'd swear the music in this trailer is a Michael Giacchino arrangement of the Williams themes. The rising scale is very much his style.

He wasn't involved. Some sources say Williams recorded the music within the last week or so.  It has been confirmed that composer Felix Erskine contributed to the teaser music, but to what extent, we don't know.  It's speculated that all the orchestral material is done by Williams and Erskine simply "beefed" up the music to make it more trailer-like. Erskine is being vague (possibly intentional) as to his contribution. 

brash_stryker said:

Expanding further on the hexagonal symbol. It's not outside the realms of possibility that Lucasfilm have taken a shine to this symbol and imagery and want to use it. Afterall, the EU isn't off limits if they see something they like. 

The game is set 4,000 years before the movies, and this is the symbol for the ancient Sith Empire of that time. 




It's sort of a precursor to the Galactic Empire symbol. They have similar designs except the obvious different basic shapes.

I don't know about you guys, but the symbol on the flag in the trailer seems to be a hybrid of the two designs to me. It utilises a circle within a hexagon, with a 'spoked' design just like the others.
Could this be symbolic of the Imperials/Sith returning to their roots?

I know this idea relies on Lucasfilm referencing the symbol from SWTOR (those who know the game will get it, those that don't won't care), but it just seems too perfect to me to be coincidence. 

EDIT: Also, it's worth noting that despite being technically non-canon now (being EU) it's still a thriving MMORPG that's making them money. Tying elements of a game in with their new movies for the purpose of cross-promotion (even if its something as insignificant as the origins of a symbol) is exactly the kind of thing Disney/Lucasfilm would do. In fact they're doing just that already with the upcoming DLC for Battlefront that shows the player the battle that left all those derelicts on Jakku.

 Nice work.

I actually like the concept of the new enemy built off the old.  Kind of like the Romans building their civilization off the Greeks.

I know nothing so take it for what its worth.   But there does seem to be a lot of respect being paid to Darth Vader by this new villain.  This new empire seems a bit more of a religious bureaucracy.  Or maybe just more zealous to the last man.

The old empire was Hitler + Wehrmacht.

The new empire seems Hitler + SS.

If that makes any sense.

^Image no worky.

luckydube56 said:

 

 Nice work.

I actually like the concept of the new enemy built off the old.  Kind of like the Romans building their civilization off the Greeks.

I know nothing so take it for what its worth.   But there does seem to be a lot of respect being paid to Darth Vader by this new villain.  This new empire seems a bit more of a religious bureaucracy.  Or maybe just more zealous to the last man.

The old empire was Hitler + Wehrmacht.

The new empire seems Hitler + SS.

If that makes any sense.

The only problem with that ancient symbol being a precursor to the Empire symbol is the Prequels. As darklordoftech rightly pointed out, the Empire symbol is previously the Republic symbol in the Prequels, so it's a symbol of good subverted to be a symbol of evil. I personally don't think Palps would keep a symbol of the old Republic as his new Empire's sigil though, and yet that's what we got in the Prequels. Goody.

I guess it's possible though that Disney/JJ are ignoring the Prequels. JJ certainly did when asked questions at the opening panel of Celebration! :p

The similarities between the designs are difficult to ignore though. Even if they've intended no inferred links between them, at the very least Lucasfilm appear to have seen that symbol and gone "this is cool, rejig it".

Open matte IMAX shots from the teaser:

http://i.imgur.com/XDEpYC2.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ZERzbw2.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Y1Z0VkY.jpg

brash_stryker said:

luckydube56 said:

 

 Nice work.

I actually like the concept of the new enemy built off the old.  Kind of like the Romans building their civilization off the Greeks.

I know nothing so take it for what its worth.   But there does seem to be a lot of respect being paid to Darth Vader by this new villain.  This new empire seems a bit more of a religious bureaucracy.  Or maybe just more zealous to the last man.

The old empire was Hitler + Wehrmacht.

The new empire seems Hitler + SS.

If that makes any sense.

The only problem with that ancient symbol being a precursor to the Empire symbol is the Prequels. As darklordoftech rightly pointed out, the Empire symbol is previously the Republic symbol in the Prequels, so it's a symbol of good subverted to be a symbol of evil. I personally don't think Palps would keep a symbol of the old Republic as his new Empire's sigil though, and yet that's what we got in the Prequels. Goody.

Isn't this the opposite of what we said in our discussion?  Neither of us said anything about the prequels and you said, "I'm not suggesting it's a good idea."