darth_ender said:

dclarkg said:

darth_ender said:

I was also defending Jesus Christ. You see, to me he is not just some guy. He is not even some remote supernatural being. I see him as a very dear friend, someone for whom I have a great deal of love. You may criticize me, my beliefs, my church, its founder, its leaders, its doctrine, its scripture. You may criticize similar things for broader Christianity. But when you actually belittle the Man I love most in this universe, I really cannot take it. It's not just being thin-skinned. Most of you wouldn't take me insulting a family member. This is much like that. You don't have to believe in him, but please do not disrespect him.

Are you aware that the guy is dead right? You are getting mad for something that is not even intended to make YOU mad, I understand that you actually believe that the dude is somewhere/everywhere listening to everything/everybody making judgement/forgiving us all and etc. and you are defending(?) him but that is exactly the problem.

You see, I understand that everyone has a right to believe whatever they want and still deserve respect but sometimes just the fact of being an atheist is an offense to the believers. Religious people must understand that some of our atheist opinions will inevitable end in mocking, jokes, sarcasm and plain rejection of religious stuff. I know that for people of faith that is blasphemy and a total disrespect that of course it will make them offended but unfortunately and because of the same atheist opinions we hold there is nothing we can do about believers getting offended.

I sometimes get offended (as a human being) by religion because it manipulates people on how they should live their lives and push them to convince and/or impose their views in our social system (government, education, health, etc) where it should be a consensus and not an imposition of any kind. I also get offended when people tell others that they need Jesus in their heart or else they'll burn endlessly in hell. I get offended when religion takes the ability of people to stand on their own because of fear of imaginary tales written in many ages of our world that have minimum-to-none connection with the reality of how the world really works both socially and scientifically... and still I don't think that religious people should keep it shut because I may feel offended.

I want to clarify that I'm not saying all of this because of a specific comment, situation or person and is just to clarify what I'm trying to say here but bottom line it goes like this: if you say you are entitled to some respect for getting mad because of insults to a imaginary friend that you and many others believe in because an ancient book tells you so without no real sustainable evidence outside the book then I'm entitled to some respect as well when expresing my opinion about all religious tales being plain bullshit, for example I find hilarious when you said ''but please do not disrespect him'' when I don't even believe in the guy and therefore is obvious I'll keep expressing that in many ways .

Please don't get me wrong here, I genuinely like you and I'm not trying to insult you in any way but if my opinions insult you then I can't do anything about it, there is a difference between someone being offensive and you finding something offensive and when it comes to religious people that line is very thin. If you demanding respect means that I can't express what I really think about a particular subject then you're being disrespectful towards others who disagree with you and unfortunately I can't comply with that request.

I'm just being honest here ;)

See, I just don't see how even the most extreme Christian statements like an atheist will burn in a hell he doesn't even believe in could really be that offensive.

If a neighbor might believe (that is truly and honestly believe--and not even necessarily desire) that all Mormons were destined for Hell would it not at the very least make exchanging daily pleasantries a bit awkward?

For the atheist may claim pragmatic principles, but underneath he has no less a desire to be valued as integral to society. To consider that a large subset of said society might adhere to a credo that imagines him being in everlasting torment after death is a slight set back in relations. To imagine that said misery is purportedly to be brought about by the express judgement of their god is a further such slight...but paramount is the concept that the good Christian might still love such an entity with all their heart whom they truly believe will righteously torment the disbeliever...an entity that must, by its very description, be incapable of doing wrong, to be eternally noble, kind, just, and loving...well that, my dear Ender, is something that tends to give one pause...

But mocking someone special to me in as disrespectful language as possible, as Darth Id insisted on doing in particular, is very hurtful. I am always respectful towards atheists' reasons for lacking belief. I believe in the rights of atheists and do not condemn them or criticize them for their lack of belief. But if that respect cannot be reciprocated, I get irritated. If you don't think it would be hurtful to criticize Jesus Christ to a Christian, then clearly you've never loved. If you want to say you don't believe, you still don't have to call him bull****.

In the mind of the atheist, the mocking of God (who might be hated) is not necessarily to be equated to the mocking of the Christian (who might be loved) any more than the accepting of an eternal hellfire for atheists might be wished to be confused with the acceptability of same...