Better a shifting aspect ratio than a shrinking aspect ratio :P
Nobody sang The Bunny Song in years…
Erik Pancakes said:
Because it wasn't shown like that in non-IMAX cinema, and some people don't like the shifting aspect ratio.
Besides, the BR's aren't technically OAR either, as it crops the IMAX shots to 1.78:1 when they should be 1.44:1.
Yeah the blu-ray isn't, but I think the bonus disc on the ultimate collector's edition has the IMAX scenes closer to the OAR, same with TDKR too.
OK, I just saw an IMAX print screening of TDK, and the colors do look in line with the more "green" images. Maybe not as green/yellow, but certainly not as pink/red as the Blu-ray. Either blue/teal with some green, or yellow/orange/brown, in line with how I remember the film looking in 35mm in 2008.
TServo2049 said:
OK, I just saw an IMAX print screening of TDK, and the colors do look in line with the more "green" images. Maybe not as green/yellow, but certainly not as pink/red as the Blu-ray. Either blue/teal with some green, or yellow/orange/brown, in line with how I remember the film looking in 35mm in 2008.
Yep, that's what I remember too. I think they wanted a more neutral colour with the blu-ray, but they went OTT with the pink/red in the colour balance.
Yeah, as much as teal/orange is maligned, the Dark Knight Trilogy did a great job with those colors (at least the way they showed up on film prints). Their home transfers are a rare case where that kind of coloring was actually *dialed back.*
Just as I recalled from 2008, some scenes like Bruce and Alfred in the penthouse after Rachel's death, and Joker in the holding cell, were almost entirely blue/teal.
On the other hand, the chaos at Loeb's memorial didn't look as obviously green as the trailer screenshot shows (but neither was it as warm as the Blu-ray). Same with Joker with the machine gun, I don't believe it was *as* green/yellow as the trailer, more the gold/brown we associate with a lot of the streets-at-night scenes in BB and TDK. (Though again, not as warm/reddish as the other screenshot.) Not sure how much was my eyes automatically white-balancing, I just didn't perceive it as THAT greenish-yellow.
I have a 35mm copy of TDK theatrical trailer stashed away somewhere. Would that be of any use for color reference, or would it be pointless since it might have been recolored prior to the full film release anyway?
TServo2049 said:
OK, I just saw an IMAX print screening of TDK, and the colors do look in line with the more "green" images. Maybe not as green/yellow, but certainly not as pink/red as the Blu-ray. Either blue/teal with some green, or yellow/orange/brown, in line with how I remember the film looking in 35mm in 2008.
Thanks for this.
Very Interesting. I was begining to believe that the IMAX print (which I think is the version that made its way onto Blu) would not be that much different.
so.....
They took the 35mm parts and 'upscaled' it to IMAX for that print. It's unknown at this point if it was taken from the finished (Nolan Approved) version (Colour ect) or before.
The IMAX version is what was put to Blu ray. This has also been mangled / changed (Colour, more EE).
How do we explain the problems with the DVD / HDTV versions that contain the 2:35:1 crops on the IMAX scenes? Were they taken from the 35mm version? The problems (Colour, EE ect) are identical.
Just out of interest, I don't know if you will remember TServo2049, but was the Bank Vault in the Prologue Blue (Begins footage) or Green (TDK BLu) ? Im sorry I should of asked you to look out for it.
CodySolo said:
I have a 35mm copy of TDK theatrical trailer stashed away somewhere. Would that be of any use for color reference, or would it be pointless since it might have been recolored prior to the full film release anyway?
Cheers CodySolo. But I believe it was recoloured by the marketing department and not representative of the final 35mm version.
Erik Pancakes said:
Because it wasn't shown like that in non-IMAX cinema, and some people don't like the shifting aspect ratio.
Besides, the BR's aren't technically OAR either, as it crops the IMAX shots to 1.78:1 when they should be 1.44:1.
This, This and This.
Stamper said:
Saw TDK at a press screening, and the Blu-ray doesn't match what I saw at all. Period. The parking lot scene (when Batman jumps from above and crushes the car) was absolutely breathtakingly crystal clear and beautiful.
Remember, Nolan tried to match this film look to Michael Mann's HEAT. Does the Blu looks like a Mann's palette? Nope.
Indeed 'Heat' was an inspiration for TDK like Blade Runner was for BB. I read somewhere he played them the crew before production.
I thought it was more in terms of scale and mood, not copying the colour pallets. TDKR inspiration was the Charles Dickens book 'A Tale of Two Cities'.
hairy_hen said:
Given the information and anecdotes in this thread, I'm starting to think that the Imax and 35mm versions may well have had different colors from each other, due to the simple fact of their having been made at different times with different processes and equipment, most of which were analog and therefore not capable of being duplicated exactly with no change every time.
Same here.
But I don't think it is as dramatic as the sample re grade I tried.
Would have to see a 35mm print to know for sure. The 35mm cells presented earlier in the thread could very well be from the Trailers.
CSchmidlapp said:
Just out of interest, I don't know if you will remember TServo2049, but was the Bank Vault in the Prologue Blue (Begins footage) or Green (TDK BLu) ? Im sorry I should of asked you to look out for it.
It looked bluish to me. Maybe closer to cyan. Possibly teal. But it didn't look green.
Can you put the same frame from the two versions side by side? I have a mental image of it, so I can compare them both to what's in my memory banks.
TServo2049 said:
CSchmidlapp said:
Just out of interest, I don't know if you will remember TServo2049, but was the Bank Vault in the Prologue Blue (Begins footage) or Green (TDK BLu) ? Im sorry I should of asked you to look out for it.
It looked bluish to me. Maybe closer to cyan. Possibly teal. But it didn't look green.
Can you put the same frame from the two versions side by side? I have a mental image of it, so I can compare them both to what's in my memory banks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIjBEKBL5HQ&feature=youtu.be
One of the Vault shots is around the 2:15 mark.
The Begins version is so different I thought it might be a pre colored version like the Trailers.
Thanks again.
Yup, the Begins version is closest to the IMAX print I saw. The 35mm scenes inside vaults later in the film looked much the same.
The IMAX print may have even been a teeny bit less green than the Begins IMAX clip. But it was definitely cyan/teal, it was NOT green like the other two clips.
I also definitely recall the blown-out white skies in the outdoor scenes. I also seem to recall the outdoor shots of the clowns being slightly colder too - a bit more blue/teal, not as much yellow in the skies, maybe even more of a "bleached out" look to everything.
Do you have the 4:3 SD IMAX footage that was on the older special-edition DVD?
TServo2049 said:
Yup, the Begins version is closest to the IMAX print I saw. The 35mm scenes inside vaults later in the film looked much the same.
The IMAX print may have even been a teeny bit less green than the Begins IMAX clip. But it was definitely cyan/teal, it was NOT green like the other two clips.
I also recall the blown-out white skies in the outdoor scenes. I also seem to recall the outdoor shots of the clowns being slightly colder too - a bit more blue/teal, not as much yellow, even more of a "bleached out" look than the Begins footage.
Thanks for your input TServo2049.
Im holding off on the project it for a little while, Ive got a lot going on in my personal life at the moment.
I did a test regrade using the Trailers ect as reference
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2f82ep_cctest1-2_tech
Its the first 15mins of the film, It probably needs dialing back a bit but let me know what you think.
Nice, I'll take a look, and compare it against both my IMAX print memories and how my brain remembers it looking in 35mm in '08.
I decided I'd actually try to comb the Internet to see if there is any footage still lurking on YouTube from camrips or screeners or anything prior to the official home release that would have been taken off of a 35mm source. And miraculously, there are still summer/fall 2008 postings of clips from the WB screener disc that survive on YT.
Here's what I've found so far; I will add more as I find them.
Joker and Two-Face in the hospital
Longer version of the hospital scene
Joker gets his phone call (I think this one's actually from a camrip)
The ending (Contrast with this clip, which also predates the official release date of the DVD, but looks to be from a leaked copy of it? No "Property of Warner Bros.", the frames don't smear, and the colors look different.)
TServo2049 said:
I decided I'd actually try to comb the Internet to see if there is any footage still lurking on YouTube from camrips or screeners or anything prior to the official home release that would have been taken off of a 35mm source. And miraculously, there are still summer/fall 2008 postings of clips from the WB screener disc that survive on YT.
Here's what I've found so far; I will add more as I find them.
Joker and Two-Face in the hospital
Longer version of the hospital scene
Joker gets his phone call (I think this one's actually from a camrip)
The ending (Contrast with this clip, which also predates the official release date of the DVD, but looks to be from a leaked copy of it? No "Property of Warner Bros.", the frames don't smear, and the colors look different.)
Legend.
TServo2049 said:
I decided I'd actually try to comb the Internet to see if there is any footage still lurking on YouTube from camrips or screeners or anything prior to the official home release that would have been taken off of a 35mm source. And miraculously, there are still summer/fall 2008 postings of clips from the WB screener disc that survive on YT.
Here's what I've found so far; I will add more as I find them.
Joker and Two-Face in the hospital
Longer version of the hospital scene
Joker gets his phone call (I think this one's actually from a camrip)
The ending (Contrast with this clip, which also predates the official release date of the DVD, but looks to be from a leaked copy of it? No "Property of Warner Bros.", the frames don't smear, and the colors look different.)
The DVD screeners had the same colour timing as the official DVD and Blu-ray. Camrips from 35mm would be probably the best, along side comparisons with the 35mm film cells, trailers and prologue.
rockin said:
The DVD screeners had the same colour timing as the official DVD and Blu-ray.
Actually, no, this one doesn't look to. This is a screener made in August 2008, long before any official video transfer. Either way, there are lots of parts in the DVD screener that remind me of what I saw on the IMAX print (though the blues sometimes go too blue when they looked more cyan on the IMAX). And as I said, my memories of the 35mm prints line up with the IMAX (though my memory could be unreliable).
Yesterday, I was able to get a full-size IMG of the screener off Usenet, and I got a German camrip off Usenet too. (These took a lot of trial and error, many of the NZBs were missing parts or were outside my newsreader's retention period.) I think both versions could be of use.
Can you provide the Screener?
I will provide both, but please be patient.
In the meantime, does anybody still have any screener rips or anything for Begins? Since that was three years earlier, anything from '05 fell out of retention long ago. All I found were a couple long-dead torrents.
I may even have to go visit an old mule and see if he still has anything after all these years...
TServo2049 said:
In the meantime, does anybody still have any screener rips or anything for Begins?
I think my girlfriend actually has a cam shot, but it's probably super scratched up since she just keeps it in a pile of discs.
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TServo2049 kindly supplied me with CAM and a early screener dated 08/15/08. The Screener is very interesting to say the least.
Here is a comparison between the
Batman Begins Prologue
Screener
HDTV
Blu-ray
The Blu-ray goes out of sync a few frames midway through.
Screener looks great. Hopefully ColourLike can take care of this.