imperialscum said:
darth_ender said:
But if it's just so natural that we shouldn't be ashamed at all, why do we hide it? Because we do in fact want "privicy" in what we do. We expect some degree of modesty. I work with a number of females, as you might imagine in the nursing field. But I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable ever saying to one of my coworkers, "Hey, I feel like I might have a hemorrhoid. Since I was born naked and it's no big deal, can you take a look and give me your professional opinion?"
I thought we are discussing nudity in film/art here. Showing something natural in film/art is something completely different to what you proposed. If a film scene is to show someone taking a shower, he/she obviously has to be naked.
But do we have to see everything? I can tell someone is in the shower just by seeing bare shoulders and head, tiled walls, and water emitting from a shower head. Do I need to see a butt crack to be sure? But this fails to address my point in the quoted paragraph that most of us value modesty in life, even if many enjoy the lack of it it movies.
darth_ender said:
It is showing it for erotic purposes, clearly, so that it can garner a greater appeal among zit-faced nerds who have no lady friends.
Who is "high and mighty" now?
I first said I was high and mighty, not you. Please reread the appropriate posts. Besides, this was a joke and an exaggeration, and I hoped such was obvious.
darth_ender said:
It ensures the survival of the species, which is why polygamy is such a prevalent practice among natures creatures.
As I said, polygamy by itself is far from ensuring the survival of the species.
I disagree with your argument, but it's a point I care so little about that I see no reason to further defend it.
darth_ender said:
You're not a bigot, but modern religion "polluted" Greek and Roman cultures? Well, let's look at ancient cultures then. Some religious cults (not in the modern pejorative sense, but cult in the actual dictionary sense) were centered on fertility and and public sexuality. I guess modern religion polluted those noble ancient ideals. Maybe you and your significant other could try to reinvigorate those ideas with public acts. Don't be shy. Don't demand privicy. Don't go behind locked doors.
And as I recall, the Romans publicly executed prisoners in violent manners until modern religion polluted them once again. The Greeks suppressed other cultures whom they had conquered, but modern religion polluted those ideas too. The Romans thought their way of life so superior to that of others' that they took it upon themselves to militantly spread that lifestyle to the rest of the world. Now, thanks to modern religious corruption, we no longer practice such methods. Gosh, it looks like modern religion just ruined everything good, since the Greeks and Romans were right about everything.
Again, I thought we are discussing nudity/sex in film/art. I did not say Ancient Greek and Rome were generally perfect. I specifically said they had no problem with nudity/sex in art, as it is evident by many statues etc. And that is one decent thing from ancient cultures upon which modern religions regressed.
Decent in your opinion...while religion is indecent in what morals are actually a regression in this, and as you've stated, in other ways? How dare you shove your views down my throat! Heretic! (Hint: this is sarcasm, as he is merely expressing his opinion, and while I find it ignorant, he continues to push it, and no one makes him out to be demanding).
But my point is that just because an ancient culture, even one we are indebted to for our culture, found certain behavior acceptable, it does not mean it is for us.
But now since you went beyond the topic let me say this... when it comes to bad stuff from ancient cultures, modern religions took those things and even "evolved" them. I won't go into details of medieval Church public executions and torture again, or suppression of people with different ideas.
Yes, because it was only the Catholic Church that did this, not other religions and societies, or even irreligious societies. But this is not the point of this discussion.
darth_ender said:
I know know of no movie or show that glamorizes sex and pregnancy when it shows you some famous actress's breasts bouncing on screen.
Showing bouncing breasts on screen actually has nothing to do with sex. It merely showing something natural about human body. Bouncing breasts are human body under the laws of physics.
I'm not just talking about watching a girl in a bikini on the beach. I'm talking about explicit scenes that show breasts while I woman is in the act of sex. You missed my point more here than anywhere, as I am saying that sex is shown to be only fun, while glossing over the risks (and joys) of pregnancy or the risks (and sorrows) of STDs. It's just all about the self-indulgence of sex.
darth_ender said:
Um. Is it that hard to understand that I wish people held a standard like mine? That isn't the same as dictating that they should.
There is only one step from wishing to imposing, and it is called power. When people get in power their wishes will be imposed on others, consciously or subconsciously.
So in other words, one should not wish that others would agree? One should not continue to stand for a value he/she holds dear, hoping to convince others that maybe he/she is right? Then why are you contiuining to argue your POV? Were you in power, would you then require that I accept all forms of art as equally valid, that public sexuality is acceptable, and that religion is rubbish? Boy, no more opinions or wishes for me.
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I am tempted to continue itemizing responses, but I am still convinced you are an idiot who is determined to miss my point most of the time. Perhaps I'll give a proper response when I'm not so irritated with how off base you are.
EDIT: Never mind, I can't resist.