logo Sign In

Blu-ray (or HD-DVD) questions — Page 2

Author
Time
(which you will have to pay for.)


ghey

Hey look, a bear!

Author
Time
Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
This is a prime component of Blu-Ray's copy-protection. They touted this as a major advantage. If they don't enforce it, then it's no better than HD-DVD's.


HD-DVD players don't use the same copy-protection system? I was almost sure that they did.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

Author
Time
Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
Well, then let me clarify the copy protection scheme, because I think I gave you the wrong idea.

If a BD player is deemed "compromised", then future BDs will have codes that are unplayable on that particular model. All the BDs you have at that point will still play, but newer ones will not. The playable isn't completely disabled, it just won't play future releases until you plug into the internet and download new keys (which you will have to pay for.)


I understood perfectly well actually. That's exactly what I was referring to (well, maybe a little opposite). Essentially, without knowing it, people would buy new discs, not be able to play them on their players, and get really pissed off. What are they going to do next? They're not going to plug it into a network connection. They're going to take it back to the store and exchange it thinking it's defective. Next one doesn't play, more pissed off. Now they'll take it back and get store credit and buy something else. Eventually they might find out that all the newer discs won't play on their old player because a key was compromised. Now what do they do? They say fuck it. First, they disable my player from playing new discs, then they want me to pay to update the player they broke? Fuck that shit.

I get irritated enough when I read this news. Joe Consumer is going to get downright pissed off and start calling his elected officials wondering why the device he paid for is being limited by some giant media conglomerate.

People might first blame the hackers, but I doubt that. It's not the hacker that broke their player (the inability to play new discs may as well be considered broken), it's the media companies.

In summary, I know they've said this is part of the copy protection scheme, I just don't believe they'll ever enforce it. The more players that get sold, the less they'll be able to enforce it because they'll essentially kill compatibility between old players and new discs. A BD player bought today should be able to play a BD movie bought 5 years from now, whether someone compromises a key or not. If that doesn't happen, the format will die (or people will just figure out a way around it).
F Scale score - 3.3333333333333335

You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
Author
Time
Is it possible that letterbox formatting cannot exist on an HD-DVD/Blu-Ray?
Author
Time
Originally posted by: generalfrevious
Is it possible that letterbox formatting cannot exist on an HD-DVD/Blu-Ray?


Why would the media effect the way it's displayed? I would think that letterboxing, anamorphic widescreen, and full screen/pan and scan would all be available or possible on HD or BD. The question to me is, why would you want to do anything other than Anamorphic or at least HD full screen? Use Anamorphic for movies and use HD full screen for everything not shot in widescreen.
F Scale score - 3.3333333333333335

You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
Author
Time
I'd hope that all movies being put on HD-DVD or Blu-ray are transferred in their proper aspect ratio and that the players are then properly programmed to alter that ratio for specific TVs based on what the viewer prefers. That would be the smart way to ALWAYS do it considering how DVDs were often so crazy when it came to aspect ratios.

Otherwise, lordjedi, I don't think new codes would erase the old codes (if they did that would be just-plain sick). So if your old discs need the old code, it will still be able to play them.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

Author
Time
No, new codes would (should) leave older BDs playable.

"HD-DVD players don't use the same copy-protection system? I was almost sure that they did. "

They use the same base encryption, but BR+ is a step above that, which is why Blu-Ray took a little longer to crack (what, two weeks? LOL!)

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

Author
Time
I was just asking when the OOT finaly comes to Blu-Ray around 2017, will it still be a letterboxed 1993 laserdisc master, which could be over 20 years old by then??
Author
Time
LOL

"No, new codes would (should) leave older BDs playable."

Right, but only if the player is updated (correct?). The media companies are making the assumption that people are going to hook their shiney new BD player into an internet connection. Why would people do this? It's not a computer. Most people don't read the manuals. They hook up the A/V cables, or HDMI cable in this case, and start enjoying their hi-def movies. What possible reason would someone have for hooking up their player to an internet connection? Most people just aren't going to go through the trouble, even if there's some "enhanced" content on the disc.

And here's another way to look at it. Suppose some hacker does compromise the keys of one BD player and those keys get pulled. So that model is no longer able to play future BD titles, correct? Even if it's updated (which we have to pay for), the hacker will still just find a way to compromise those keys. It's a never ending cycle.
F Scale score - 3.3333333333333335

You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
Author
Time
"Right, but only if the player is updated (correct?)."

No. Only newer releases are affected. The discs, themselves, don't change the player - future discs are encoded with a code that older players can't play.

As I said, the player isn't completely disabled, it's simply not allowed to play newer releases.

"What possible reason would someone have for hooking up their player to an internet connection?"

It could be a phone connection, like Satellite TV and DIVX. I've not heard the specifics on this part yet.

"Even if it's updated (which we have to pay for), the hacker will still just find a way to compromise those keys. It's a never ending cycle. "

I agree. I never said it was a good system....I'm merely explaining the system as is.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

Author
Time
Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
As I said, the player isn't completely disabled, it's simply not allowed to play newer releases.


If it can't play everything with that logo from now until the end of time without needing an update (firmware updates to fix weird problems don't count), it may as well be disabled.

F Scale score - 3.3333333333333335

You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
Author
Time
I get your point. I just don't want others to be confused about how the system actually works.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

Author
Time
Hackers win again.
F Scale score - 3.3333333333333335

You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
Author
Time
AACS LA talks about cracked keys

2 June 2007 23:24 by DVDBack23
Recently, the AACS LA, the group in charge of the AACS copy protection, acknowledged that hackers had been very effective in cracking the protection and have since been trying to restore the integrity of the technology. That being said, the new movie titles shipped with Media Key Block (MKB) v3 were cracked by Slysoft a week before the titles hit retail shelves.

Although an official statement has not been made about the latest round of keys being crakced, Richard E. Doherty, director of technology strategy at Microsoft, and who is also very involved with the AACS LA, took time to talk about the protection and how he still has complete faith in it.

“Just to clarify, the original attack was on certain software players that proved to be vulnerable, and did not and does not represent a widespread break in the AACS ecosystem ... In the past PC's have typically been a big target for hacking activities, as they are designed to run arbitrary software programs. But the line between PCs and traditional CE devices is clearly blurring – and many of the best PVR systems (in my opinion) are highly customizable and capable of running user-designed software,” explained Doherty, “Keep in mind, however, that AACS is aware of the history and attack vectors of PC playback systems, and there are several technical measures (such as KCD and the entire proactive renewal system) that are designed specifically to address the particular issues of PC-based protection,” Doherty added.

The original processing key was cracked in February, but the new MKB wasnt released until May, which left many wondering as to why it took so long. Doherty had this to say about the matter: “AACS of course has the technical means to revoke overnight. But the current license agreement generally provides for 90 days. This is to allow time for the manufacturer to repair the product and presumably fix the vulnerability, and time to rollout the patches to the affected users.”

That 90 day grace period is done in the interest of the consumer, who could find themselves with retail discs that are unplayable due to software updates.

“You have seen a revocation cycle occur which has required upgrades to certain software players to make them more robust to known styles of attack. The AACS system was designed to deal with these sorts of attacks, and remains intact as a technology. This is in contrast to CSS, which is vulnerable to direct, brute-force attacks,” said Doherty, who then explains it in even simpler terms. “The analogy we sometimes give is: if you lock your house, but leave the keys lying on the street, then there's really nothing wrong with the locks or with the concept of locks in general. If you don't find the keys, you can change the locks if you like.”

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

Author
Time
"That being said, the new movie titles shipped with Media Key Block (MKB) v3 were cracked by Slysoft a week before the titles hit retail shelves."

lol

I love everybody. Lets all smoke some reefer and chill. Hug and kisses for everybody.

Author
Time

I still think HdDvD could pull it off, it's seems they are big in China and we all know how important that market is these days.

So I still have my player and I will be laughing at all of you fools when HDDvD wipes Bluray off the face of the earth!!!

Author
Time

Davnes007 said:

I'm still waiting for a Betamax/HD-DVD combo machine.

 Add on a Lazer disc player and you will win all the format wars.

Author
Time

I could go on about the various formats for the ultimate combo device, or I can post this image about the perils of necrobumping

http://cache4.asset-cache.net/gc/200277843-001-skeleton-with-payphone-receiver-on-head-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=8xD769kAKEqWKCQ7C6f3ScvMCciwC5or0%2BDpW0%2BeV8A%3D

"You Rang?"

Nobody sang The Bunny Song in years…

Author
Time

This a thread for questions only. Not answers, can people please respect that. Oh damn!

VIZ TOP TIPS! - PARENTS. Impress your children by showing them a floppy disk and telling them it’s a 3D model of a save icon.

Author
Time

HD-DVD is dead.  Even an acquaintance of mine a stanch defender of the format finally caved and got blu ray player about 4 years ago.

He convinced me to get a player and an HDTV once the prices came down dramatically.

That being said i doubt they are going to come to your house and take your player and working discs away, if you enjoy them then so what if they don't make them anymore.

I am not  a Sony plant of troll i don't even own a PlayStation beyond the original.

One thing i hate about the format though is that some discs won't play on some players even if they are updated to the current firmware. Its only happened to me once, but once was a nightmare.  99% of my discs work.

Imagine dropping 40 dollars on a box set and it won't play because the region lockout says you are trying to view it in another region, yet the disc and player are region A.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

Author
Time

Yeah I hate that.  Recently I found that XMen first class will not play on my newest Bluray player, what a rip off.  Makes me long for the days of VHS when the studios couldn't pull this kind of garbage.

I have an HDDvD player but only because my DvD player died a week after the format was killed and six months before I had gotten my first HDTV.  The DvD player I was looking at was $40 but then a spotted a loan HDDvD player on clearance for $25 and it came with an HDMI cable and seven HDDvD discs in the box so I picked that up quick.  It still works and I still use it from time to time, but I do think Bluray was the better format just because more data could be put on the discs.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

I wanted HD DVD to win because it was less strict copyright wise, but it doesn't matter now :P

Nobody sang The Bunny Song in years…

Author
Time
 (Edited)


Danfun128 said:
I wanted HD DVD to win because it was less strict copyright wise, but it doesn't matter now :P


it was also technologically inferior in pretty much every way. luckily the better format actually won out this time unlike vhs/betamax

as for the copy protection on blu-ray, that shit's been cracked since like 2009 :P

http://i.imgur.com/7N84TM8.jpg

Author
Time

Danfun128 said:

I wanted HD DVD to win because it was less strict copyright wise, but it doesn't matter now :P

There's still a bunch of Universal titles that look better than their DNR'ed to death Blu Ray versions.

It still irks me the zoom feature Warner titles had on HD DVD was never carried over either.

Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?