Info: James Bond - Laserdisc Preservations: 1962-1971 — Page 29

nafroe said:

@captainsolo - I am loving your in-depth analysis of the 007 films... Was enjoying them, but was wondering of the purpose of this analysis... Then I found your thread on fanres...  ;-)  :-)

 I like them too, but would it be possible to include more pictures? It would be nice to see the differences illustrated.

That's what kills me-I haven't yet been able to devise a capture method that works with my PC. Until I can build an editing machine I figured detailed analysis would be the best I could do. Plus it is striking how different things can look in motion and on a calibrated CRT as opposed to just screenshots.

captainsolo said:

That's what kills me-I haven't yet been able to devise a capture method that works with my PC.

 I use PowerDVD v.6 to take screen caps.

Easiest way to see captures is via capsaholic. The HD site has BD vs. mostly UK UEs and the older SD version of the site has captures with UE and SEs. But remember there is some slight variation at times between R1 and PAL.

Once my PS3 gets back up and running I will finish comparing the others. Got my replacement FYEO SE to replace a rotted DVD and am only missing a few LD titles.

The extras I now have (89 TB, 89 YOLT, 91 OP, 80's TLD pan n' scan, Criterion GF CAV, GE THX) will probably go to ebay unless somebody here happens to want them badly or wish to trade for any of these I'm still looking for: (TND letterbox, 1989 DAF, DTS GE, DTS TND, THX DN, THX FRWL, THX GF, THX TB, THX Spy, or the single reissues of the first three Connerys with poster art.)

Been watching some of the films on MGM HD.  The transfer quality is all over the place and so are the colors.  But worst of all are the reworked soundtracks.

Indeed, these are also on Comcast VOD free. Currently it's FRWL, GF, LALD, FYEO. They are the BDs at some heavy compressed state for cable with these putrid remixes.

A film like FYEO should look damn outstanding. Not a lot of reissues, good solid production, a film ripe for a straight proper re-transfer. Instead all we have is a 1080p bump of the old heavily scrubbing of an even older video master. At least it is one of the few 5.1 remixes that is relatively the same as the original track. However, the original isn't quite so boomy like the DTS version.

It's also funny how much the looks change with every release. For example, Loque's death is presented differently on every single copy of the film. VHS, LD, DVD, UE and BD. And even the underwater photography can't find a consistent shade of blue!

I'll try to get back to doing more comparisons soon.

Was there ever a 1080p version of the Goldeneye HDTV? I only have a 720p version and the difference in detail compared to the BD is staggering at times. I'm also wondering if the Dolby track's heavy LFE was intentional (or theatrical) as the PCM surround has a similar level and I've recently been reading up on the early format technical studies where each would have either a 10db increase or decrease in LFE.

captainsolo said:

I only have a 720p version and the difference in detail compared to the BD is staggering at times.

Shouldn't be difficult, the shots I saw of the BD looked awful =)

Anyone who missed out on the previous YOLT IB Tech print may be interested to know that 11(!) more reels are currently up for auction on ebay:

381154217575


381134727226


381137930014


381134734712


381134754247


381134689055


381134747066


381137964227


201271570871


201271402623


201271633078


Where do they keep coming from?! Some have VS, but most look great. If anyone here wins any reels, let me know and I can get them scanned.

Spy and Moonraker seem to have similar outcomes:

-Initial LD release with Dolby Stereo matrix

-THX remaster with different color, and sound coming across different in addition to a 5.1 remix.

-DVD ports

Eventual remasters.

Spy appears to have been redone for the THX series, that has different looking color and the new BD transfer looks like a balance between all sources and much more like the old LD. Arguably the first time it has been properly represented overall. Sound is tricky as it was a stereo release but not Dolby. I believe the mix was re-transferred and perhaps sweetened a bit for the THX process and remixed into 5.1 discrete. The old LD PCM sounds a bit more dirty and has a pop or two. The UE seems to use the same transfer but goes wild with the color and contrast in addition to having even more edge enhancement.

Moonraker has great sound on the original LD with a different looking picture that is terribly noisy on the CLV sides. The sound was remixed for the THX disc, leaving the PCM sounding a bit less robust than the older disc and the 5.1 version is identical. Perhaps they did the remixing and then just had each track finalized out of that? The colors are different when comparing old and THX, but the 4K Lowry image has the finer detail. It seems to have some leanenings of teal here and there and is not as accurate seeming to the source.

What I have really noticed is how different all the THX LDs and their DVD ports come across. In some instances they are appearing to be color and/or contrast boosted or even from a different source (OHMSS). It may very well be that these are not very good references for original presentation.

NSNA:

Everything appears to be the same master. The LD has a WB logo, everything else changes this to Orion. The DVDs are exactly the same, and the BD appears to be a higher generation version of the same source judging from capsaholic. If the LD PCM is added to the BD and a WB opening logo added, that's it.

Note the 5.1 remix is rather poor and the Dolby surround actually has more in the rears, though admittedly not very much. Very poor mix overall, rather mushy in the opening 20 minutes as well. Just compare the title song in the film to CD or vinyl. Huge difference.

It looks as if it is hard matted for the 1.85 as composed. That fits perfectly as does a few shots having that slight golden cast which I have always felt was intentional and quite brilliant actually.

When I win the lottery the print collecting starts. ;)

Finally back to doing these...

FYEO

WS LD vs SE DVD vs UE DVD vs BD

PCM Dolby Surround vs DD 5.1 vs remixed 5.1 DD/DTS vs same remix in DTSHDMA vs BD Dolby Surround

DVD shots:

http://sd.caps-a-holic.com/vergleich.php?vergleichID=196

UE vs BD:

http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/multi_comparison.php?disc1=628&disc2=833&hd_multiID=973#auswahl

The LD is opened up a bit, it loses a sliver on the left side and has more information across the top than the SE. LDDB credits a 2.10:1 ratio and it looks a little stretched. SE has better blacks and deeper color, whereas the LD is contrastier but has a nice look to it. The colors of the LD appear slightly different to all other versions.

The UE improves on the SE, restoring the frame edges so that it has a more balanced look and doesn't seem stretchy. Colors are good mostly but there have been many tweaks like the other Lowry video handled entries that induce some teals etc. and overall everything appears boosted. Fine detail appears better but everything that might have been grain was obliterated.

The BD slightly advances the image, but is really only a 1080p bump of the same.

And apparently no one knows how to color time Loque's death. The LD is broad daylight and the others all try some attempt at a day for night filter.

Sound:

The LD sounds just right with good detail in all places. However it does have some distortion in few select places (helicopter sound effects in the teaser for example) that crop up. This also appears in the SE 5.1, UE 5.1 and is cleaned up for the BD track.

The mix is essentially the same on LD and SE but the latter tends to accentuate the highs more and feels a bit less authentic despite having nice discrete placements. The UE gives more clarity but accentuates the highs even more, in addition to replacing the title song with the soundtrack master. The BD DTS is the same mix but in HD; even more clarity with more emphasis on the upper midrange. It also goes without saying that the UE and BD mixes are both louder due to added levels of compression.

The BD includes what is said to be the original Dolby Surround, but I believe it is merely a folddown of the 5.1 as it also has the distortion cleaned up, and sounds identical in every way. Why they go to this trouble only to include a fake 2.0 track is beyond me.

I believe the UE/BD remix was done at MiCasa studios where they did the series and primarily used the soundtracks to replace the music. The SE 5.1 was prepped for the scrapped THX LD and is really just a 5.1 upmix of the original 2.0.

If anyone as the Japanese or European LDs or anything else I haven't covered, please feel free to chime in.

Soooo...again we are left without knowing exactly what is accurate to the source. Thanks to the lovely HD trailer scans that have been done from the 007 Dossier, at least it is possible to see that the better blacks of the new transfer are more accurate...but that it overall falls well short of what the 1981 release print would have looked like.

Sound: LD. SE is also acceptable, and the BD HD presentation gives the best in clarity but it isn't fully original.

Video: UE/BD for detail/resolution but it's nowhere near perfect. Far too video-ish for a film that should have a stunning transfer. Colorwise I prefer the SE and LD despite the ratios being a touch off.

For those also inclined the Ryko CD is just as good as the US LP on the original tracks (though the latter does have nice analog warmth) and being expanded is a no brainer purchase. The Capitol reissue was supposed to be a port but I don't have it to compare.

Octopussy

LD vs SE vs UE vs BD

http://sd.caps-a-holic.com/vergleich.php?vergleichID=199

http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/multi_comparison.php?disc1=1571&disc2=1602&hd_multiID=734#auswahl

LD master ported but corrected for SE, SE master cleaned and stripped by Lowry for UE and re-color timed. BD is a 1080p bump.

The LD master has the original MGM logo with plain white UA presents logo. These were errored on the LD, with the MGM lion section leaving a garbage matte, then the UA logo shifting down to center itself onscreen. The LD is very contrasty and has bright whites combined with some deeper saturation of colors. Sadly it does also have some aliasing issues that crop up throughout. The entire LD is cropped on the sides a bit, with the top and bottom edges stretched out a bit to make some kind of 2.20:1 or narrower. (LDDB lists 2.20:1)

Don't go thinking this was a 70mm print as the scanning technology for large format was only getting in place by 1991, and the fact that the SE actually corrects the scan back to proper 2.35:1! Color is far more balanced and loses the overdosed contrasty look. The opening logos are still intact and fixed. Audio is a lossy DD 2.0 copy of the LD PCM. Aliasing problems still present though.

The UE has increased detail from the newer processing, and the new 5.1 remix which is cleaned up but not as detailed as the original 2.0. Most important is that the aliasing problems are gone. Color timing by Lowry is all over the place. Better in one shot, worse in the next. Here they infused in teals, beiges and messed with the brightness levels to make a modern HDTV palatable image out of a 1983 picture, much as they did throughout Moonraker etc. The BD is identical.

At least the 2.0 surround track on UE and the BD is the original. It has some inherent distortion across the board that isn't on the remix track. The remix does a good job at re-purposing the film with split surrounds but it does lose an effect or two I noticed right off the bat and doesn't quite have the same level of detail in the high end as found on the 2.0 original.

So here we have a case where the LD PCM should be added to the BD, which should then be re-timed to better match a print source. OP is a bit tougher than the others to do as it has always had this slight haze cast to its photography that seems to wreak havoc on home video transfers. Each transfer has its moments on color...there are times where I like the LD, times when the SE is better, and times when the UE/BD are better. None are quite consistent but this may be one time where the SE wins overall.

But we have to use the BD for the resolution, bitrate and thankfully the lack of aliasing.

Yep it got the Dolby Stereo in the 70mm blowup, but has since been MIA. Due to the usual constraints and producer's dislike for added costs, I don't think the blowup would have differed greatly if at all from the 4 track master. There also vague references and rumors of previous films getting a 70mm blowup such as YOLT (Japan only), TMWTGG, Spy, Moonraker. I'd have thought it likely for Thunderball to have received a blowup but probably not due to the harried post-production schedule.

All this aside one interesting tidbit from John Glen's autobiography: they did a stereo multi track mix for OHMSS!!! He goes into great detail about how it was discovered the premiere theater was only wired for mono and how they had to take apart the fake cabinets to actually install true stereo rigs along with additional  speakers for what I presume is the rear channel.

Selling some extra discs from my collection for those who are interested:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/James-Bond-007-Laserdisc-lot-Thunderball-Twice-Octopussy-Goldeneye-Widescreen-/171858894112?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2803969d20

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Goldfinger-Criterion-CAV-James-Bond-rare-banned-release-Uncensored-commentary-/171858918830?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item280396fdae

New repackaging set announced with a few steelbooks with artwork based on the titles...

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=17180

A much better and eco-friendlier boxset with simple art, complete with regular cases, and a release of the EoN docu... (Not to mention an easy way for me to throw out the three that never happened and replace them with NSNA, CR.) So...are they going to do this every two-three years now? Was Bond 50 just a throwaway? The price is ridiculous considering I got Bond 50 for around $80 shipped.

The new steelbooks are nice ideas, but they are merely based on the titles and really just new photoshop jobs that are edited and conformed to BD size.

The discs are still the same and will likely be marketed and flogged to us every 1-2 years in new artwork/packages until the end of the format. They will never redo them for any foreseeable reason.

I will keep doing research on the rest of the titles to finally determine how to best preserve each. The endless repackaging of thoughtless transfers has got to stop. This has been going on since the dawn of video and still none of the films has a truly caring definitive release. I am so done with MGM for continuing to do this crap to us. We don't need to have 75 versions of Goldfinger. Do it right once and for all.