darth_ender said:
I am afraid that this is all a bunch of ignorance. I don't disagree that people who are without religion can still hold high moral standards. But bear in mind where those standards came from. Right now you are from the UK if I recall correctly. Your nation has been tremendously influenced by Judeo-Christian values. Let's say that the world was taken over by the Islamic State. Over time, societal norms conform to those accepted by what we now see as an evil group.
First, you are saying that one religion will protect us from the other, which is kind of a paradox in this discussion. So if it is the religion that may harm us in the first place, why don't we just get rid of all religions if they are the problem?
darth_ender said:
In 100 years, a guy very much like you wishes to live a life with morals much like yours. Do you know what would happen? This man would be branded a heretic and executed for apostasy. You know why, because he would be living a life if immorality according to a different society, though his standards may be exactly like yours today. Lest you use this as an argument against religion due to the extremism of such Muslims, I do wish to point out that even atheistic societies like North Korea and the Soviet Union have adopted truly evil norms.
I hope that this was some kind of joke. You speak like Christianity gave us freedom and stuff. You better learn the history of Europe. The Church (in the name of Christianity) was exploiting people for centuries (it still does to a lesser degree). Funny how you mentioned "branding one a heretic" and executions in the name of religion. In medieval Europe, that was a very common practice of Church ... burning people alive, invention of unimaginably sick torture devices to extract the "confessions" out of "heretics", etc. The Church actively suppressed the freedom and sabotaged the secular progress in Europe for many centuries (Copernicus, Galileo, etc.).
It was only when secular sphere (such as science), led by intellectuals, forced the Church to change and accept new norms that were demanded by the people. So I hope we are now clear on the fact that it is the secular sphere to be credited for the modern western society and NOT the religion.
It is fair to mention that in northern countries the Church wasn't forced but rather reformed itself. But still, the reformation was a result of influence and progress in the secular sphere.
darth_ender said:
Lest you use this as an argument against religion due to the extremism of such Muslims
Some Muslim countries have their "middle age" as we had ours in Europe. A common denominator in both cases is/was a religion.
darth_ender said:
I do wish to point out that even atheistic societies like North Korea and the Soviet Union have adopted truly evil norms.
Of course there are some exceptions. But a vast majority of atheistic societies (EU countries) are doing very well in terms of moral norms.
Btw this sounded like you consider USA a theocracy? It is kinda funny that it actually have some elements of theocracy, such as the use of bible in court. As an atheist, can you refuse to participate in that ritual?