imperialscum said:
darth_ender said:
But to say religion is just nonsense is, in fact, nonsense. Religion is built into humanity. Even most who do not believe in deity in any form still engage in religious-like behaviors and rituals, whether they realize it or not. It too is a part of humanity.
The only useful thing about religion are some (emphasis on some) of the moral standards it teaches. Pretty much everything else is a nonsense, such as time-wasting rituals and stupid stories like creationism and life after death.
And in the end you don't really need a religion to abide the high moral standards.
I am afraid that this is all a bunch of ignorance. I don't disagree that people who are without religion can still hold high moral standards. But bear in mind where those standards came from. Right now you are from the UK if I recall correctly. Your nation has been tremendously influenced by Judeo-Christian values. Let's say that the world was taken over by the Islamic State. Over time, societal norms conform to those accepted by what we now see as an evil group. In 100 years, a guy very much like you wishes to live a life with morals much like yours. Do you know what would happen? This man would be branded a heretic and executed for apostasy. You know why, because he would be living a life if immorality according to a different society, though his standards may be exactly like yours today. Lest you use this as an argument against religion due to the extremism of such Muslims, I do wish to point out that even atheistic societies like North Korea and the Soviet Union have adopted truly evil norms.
In other words, morals are not universal. There is no supreme law that says that murder is wrong, that human equality is right. Not unless there is a Supreme Being. Otherwise, those values are actually just accepted by the majority of society. Being moral in one society may be immoral in another.
Note that this is not proof of any Supreme Being, but rather that in a sense, if there is no God, no one can be truly called moral.
I intend to actually address the value of religion in a different thread in the near future.