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Harmy's THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK Despecialized Edition HD - V2.0 - MKV & AVCHD (Released) — Page 116

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D'oh! on both counts ;)

...but you are the only guy with those Technicolor references, so we're still going to bug you about it.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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Wrong thread, sorry.  I meant for Star Wars.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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If the new version of Empire is going to be 100% GOUT free does that mean that potentially all changes will be removed? Or will some of the recomposited effects still have to be left in until better sources become available like in 2.0?

The Person in Question

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Well, I think I'll still leave in some things like the wipes but will definitelly try and get rid of the recomped fx shots.

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The 35mm scan we've seen so far is very beat up in some parts (reel changes in particular), and pretty dirty overall.  It will take a lot of effort to clean up even the best-looking parts to blend convincingly, so I'd imagine Blu-ray footage will likely still be used except for parts that need despecializing.

But yeah, long term, that's what Harmy meant when he said a good 35mm preservation might leave him out of a job.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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Harmy said:

While I'm waiting for more ROTJ 35mm footage, I decided to take Team N1's recent Grindhouse release of Empire and start experimenting with it for ESB v2.5 and here's the result:

...

Harmy, with no disrespect intended, I don't like how that looks; it's like taking DVNR to the extreme. To my eye I prefer the 2.0 to the 2.5 in that shot.

Good luck with you future versions though, the work you've done is really commendable, and I take my hat off to you for taking on these projects. :)

[ Scanning stuff since 2015 ]

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RU.08 said:

Harmy said:

While I'm waiting for more ROTJ 35mm footage, I decided to take Team N1's recent Grindhouse release of Empire and start experimenting with it for ESB v2.5 and here's the result:

...

Harmy, with no disrespect intended, I don't like how that looks; it's like taking DVNR to the extreme. To my eye I prefer the 2.0 to the 2.5 in that shot.

Good luck with you future versions though, the work you've done is really commendable, and I take my hat off to you for taking on these projects. :)

 What? watch again, paying particular attention to which is 2.0 and which is 2.5. I really think you must be mistaken. 2.0 has parts of the arms missing, and the blowing snow is nearly wiped out!

-G

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Personally, I think if he put cleaned/stabilised probe over the original it would look better - I don't at all like how the snow dunes/hills look in the filtered version. Parts of the probe have become thinner in the clean-up process.

It's just my opinion, and honest feedback. The Despecialised Edition is Harmy's baby and it will look however he likes best; no one is going to agree 100% with every opinion a restore makes or each decision that he or she makes with their work. Overall Harmy's work is outstanding, indeed invaluable, and most of us here share that opinion.

[ Scanning stuff since 2015 ]

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RU.08 said:

Personally, I think if he put cleaned/stabilised probe over the original it would look better - I don't at all like how the snow dunes/hills look in the filtered version. Parts of the probe have become thinner in the clean-up process.

It's just my opinion, and honest feedback. The Despecialised Edition is Harmy's baby and it will look however he likes best; no one is going to agree 100% with every opinion a restore makes or each decision that he or she makes with their work. Overall Harmy's work is outstanding, indeed invaluable, and most of us here share that opinion.

 

Okay, so you don't like the dunes, but you have to admit the probe droid and the blowing snow look better in 2.5 than in 2.0. No?

-G

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okay, I'm looking again, and yes, there is some aesthetic about the hills and dunes that is nice in 2.0, but everything else about 2.5 is such a vast improvement that I'd take it over some slight preference in some details of the hills.

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 (Edited)

That is because the background in v2.0 is a still image from the SE. Also, the compression in the clip hides some of the grain in the cleaned up v2.5 version, of which there's actually plenty.

Plus I really don't see where any parts of the probe have "become thinner" in the filtered version.

Whereas in the v2.0, they certainly were thinner because of the way the probe and the smoke were composited from GOUT onto the SE HD background:

Thanks for the GIFs, g-force :-)

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Looks like a light leak from the crawl element, so 1980 artifact would be my guess.

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One thing the Team -1 version makes very clear is that the special effects shots were considerably grainier than the rest.  With that in mind, it seems to me that any despecializations should err towards the side of leaving grain in, rather than removing it for the sake of consistency with the Bluray.  With such a good record of the grain levels from shot to shot now available, cleaning them up too much is going to make scrubbed shots feel inauthentic.

I'm not suggesting that it should be left 'as is' from the -1 source—coming from a release print with several generations of duplication, the grain level there is of course going to be higher than it would be if they'd been taken from the same source as the Bluray material, and to jump from pristine to heavy grain and back wouldn't look right.  But for the sake of authenticity, we should still be able to see a significant increase in grain level on any shot that has a blending of elements.  In light of the "overly-DNR'd" remark earlier, I guess what I'm saying is be careful not to overdo it.

To maintain the appearance of an optically-assembled film, I would go a step further and suggest that any shots which were redone for the SE and retained for Despecialized, such as digitally recomposited wipes and so forth, have a layer of grain added over them, as well.  That way, even though they are not actually sourced from the original version, they will appear as if they were.  Otherwise, their sharpness and lack of grain will cause them to stand out as looking 'too good' against all the 35mm material that has been put back into the movie.  Every shot with opticals, even the wipes, should appear softer and grainer than the rest, but if only some of them do, it will feel weirdly inconsistent.

Anyway, something to keep in mind.  I must say I'm very excited to see how this is going to turn out, now that the all the GOUT inserts can finally be replaced!  I eagerly await being able to see the other two films in a similar state of excellence, as well.  Keep up the awesome work.  ;)

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hairy_hen said:

One thing the Team -1 version makes very clear is that the special effects shots were considerably grainier than the rest.

 Yes, all optical effects shots have additional layers of grain (including the optical wipes) - some more than others. A true restoration would de-grain the entire film, correct all the dirt and scratches, and then re-grain scene by scene. That goes way beyond what Harmy's version is capable of delivering. You also may want to reduce the overall grain one generation (since this comes off a print).

[ Scanning stuff since 2015 ]

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Hi all, just joined. First off thanks to Harmy and everyone who made the first Despecialized Edition happen. Amazing work. I saw the first SW when I was 4 in the theatre and not that i have a 2.35:1 Projector set up, I cant wait to watch it with my daughter when she is old enough. Anyway, I'm super excited to see that Empire is available. Can someone let me know how I can get the 19gig mkv version?

Sorry if it is a dumb question. I'm a little new to this. Thanks in advance! 

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New probe droid looks great, Harmy! Keep doing what you're doing! :)

“Stargazing wizards, stare into the night,
Hurricanes and blizzards, here comes the final fight”

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Lust-In-Phaze said:

You can try tehparadox

Oh man, I'm totally lost over there (and not the only one judging by the comments =]

Appreciate the help though. Any other way to get it?

Thanks

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It's on the Spleen and Demonoid.

[ Scanning stuff since 2015 ]

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