4K restoration on Star Wars — Page 53

Alderaan said:

Tobar said:

Alderaan said:

 Most people don't want the official BR. They also don't want the OOT looking like it did in '77-83.

 Considering most people I've come across who are casual fans of Star Wars still hold onto their VHS copies, I'm gonna take that statement with a grain of salt.

 

I have my VHS copies too, but that's only because something better hasn't been released in a newer format.

Laserdisc? '06 Bonus (GOUT) DVDs?

Alderaan said:

They just want the OOT version looking like the official BR does now.

So they want amateurishly-bad color grading and DNR'd-to-hell PQ. Interesting.

Alderaan said:

They just want the OOT version looking like the official BR does now.

 I'd say that this is the LAST thing they would want

Alderaan said:

Yes, I think people will care. Most people want to see the original films, but enhanced for modern home theater entertainment purposes. What Disney should do is release an OOT set with with two options for each film:



1) Cleaned up OOT ... basically what the SE versions should have been all along. No Greedo shooting. No rock in front of R2. No CGI Jabba. No CGI inserts AT ALL. No Boba Fett mugging. No Luke screaming. No Jedi Rocks. No Hayden Ghost. etc. But with the new composite look above.



This is what I think most people want. Just an up-to-date modernized HD home viewing experience of the original movies.



2) OOT Theatrical Release



For the purists, who should absolutely have the option to watch the theatrical versions, matte lines and all.



Kind of like how the 2006 release had the SE as the feature and GOUT as an extra bonus, purists' best shot is to get a cleaned up OT as the feature with OOT as an added bonus. jmo

yoda-sama said:

I just stopped reading the above, I suggest everyone do the same.

I don't.

I appreciate that Alderaan took the time to address every reply point-by-point with a reasoned, coherent, and otherwise concise argument for his position.

I don't agree with everything he wrote, but at least he didn't post several insanity-driven walls of text with nonsense arguments and tons of ellipses. There's too much of that on the WWW lately and I think it's refreshing to see posts like his rather than the aforementioned rubbish.

If you did a mashup of every comment that went "I think they should release the OOT but still including these certain Special Edition changes" and "I think that a properly-restored OOT wouldn't pass muster with today's discerning viewer based on my experiences with a decades-old home video transfer rather than my experiences with other properly-restored films of the same era, or because Lucas said so", you'd get something a lot more concise.

Alderaan said:

I think watching Star Wars is a little different than watching something like The Godfather, don't you think?

Absolutely. One of them looks and sounds like it did in theatres (although some argue this point because they don't think the yellow tint is from bulb-matching), and one of them clearly doesn't, which is rather the point.

EDIT: If you're talking about "looking dated", you simply need to look at the haircuts.  They are movies from the seventies.  The VFX, editing, haircuts and fashions are all dead giveaways.  I'm sure it's possible to give everyone a digital haircut, freshen up the fashions and color schemes a bit, do some more jump cuts and fewer wipes, and remove the matte lines, but that would just turn it into a seventies movie trying to be a modern movie (and failing).  Which, in a lot of ways, is one of the primary problems with the Special Editions.  To focus exclusively on matte lines is really no different than focusing exclusively on haircuts.  It's the same "I don't like the look of films from that period" writ small.  Not that it isn't a valid opinion to have, but that's what it is.

It's also not my intention to be dismissive of your opinion, just of the idea that you can extrapolate/evangelize your opinion to what everyone else might want. Heck, I wouldn't mind changes to the originals myself (no cue marks, no gate weave, no burn marks, some dirt & scratch removal), but I know there's plenty who would disagree with me on some or all of these.

AntcuFaalb said:

Alderaan said:

They just want the OOT version looking like the official BR does now.

So they want amateurishly-bad color grading and DNR'd-to-hell PQ. Interesting.

I of course wouldn't want that, but if it were the unaltered OT then I would still buy it. I mean, there are plenty of movies with sub-par blu ray releases out there. For example, Halloween: H20 has a lame blu ray release with poor PQ, but I enjoy the film and the franchise so I own it anyway. Obviously Star Wars is light years ahead of H20 so I have no doubt that Star Wars would never be released in a quality as low as poor H20 was, but even if it did, and it was the unaltered versions, I'd buy it in a heart beat, but only if they were the unaltered versions.

Alderaan said:

 

twister111 said:

The differences between those two versions would be so insignificant as to not even be a viable option. I mean if you're going to have the OT really restored with matte lines and everything. Then some other version where the only difference is that the effects were digitally composited. It's really such a small difference that it's barely worth it to put it there. If there are options they'll probably be one of the SEs.

The problem is though that people -- in general -- don't like the SEs. They like the sleek look, but the nonsense changes and fake CGI have alienated many long-time fans as well as turned off potential new fans. If Disney sticks with the SEs, they are providing an inferior product and not maximizing what they've got.

The two versions I described might not seem that different, but fans have "sticky" tastes. Small differences can mean a lot.

The best approach for Disney is to provide an official version:

1) "cleaned up" OT

2) along with OOT (what everyone here wants)



And also provide the SE's as Lucas's director's cut.



Then everyone is happy, including everyone here who wants the OOT.

CatBus said:

Alderaan said:

I think watching Star Wars is a little different than watching something like The Godfather, don't you think?

Absolutely. One of them looks and sounds like it did in theatres (although some argue this point because they don't think the yellow tint is from bulb-matching), and one of them clearly doesn't, which is rather the point.

EDIT: If you're talking about "looking dated", you simply need to look at the haircuts.  They are movies from the seventies.  The VFX, editing, haircuts and fashions are all dead giveaways.  I'm sure it's possible to give everyone a digital haircut, freshen up the fashions and color schemes a bit, do some more jump cuts and fewer wipes, and remove the matte lines, but that would just turn it into a seventies movie trying to be a modern movie (and failing).  Which, in a lot of ways, is one of the primary problems with the Special Editions.  To focus exclusively on matte lines is really no different than focusing exclusively on haircuts.  It's the same "I don't like the look of films from that period" writ small.  Not that it isn't a valid opinion to have, but that's what it is.

It's also not my intention to be dismissive of your opinion, just of the idea that you can extrapolate/evangelize your opinion to what everyone else might want. Heck, I wouldn't mind changes to the originals myself (no cue marks, no gate weave, no burn marks, some dirt & scratch removal), but I know there's plenty who would disagree with me on some or all of these.

 Largely I agree with Alderaan, in that newly composited original elements (but no CGI embelishments), put together as a "Showcase" version for a modern DCP/Blu-Ray/4K, would be ideal for a wide release of the Classic cuts. Though CatBus makes a perfect point about preserving the film(s) as a product of their time (and where would Disney hypothetically draw the line should they decide to play in the Lucas sandbox?), I believe tidying up the original compositing would eliminate the biggest remaining distraction for modern audiences. Everything about set design, hairstyles, costumes, etc., should remain as it is, because, those are aspects that contemporary audiences *expect* to see, and will not find jarring, in the way that a blurry landspeeder (1970's VFX) or ronto creature (1990's VFX) would on a modern screen. In other words, cheap sets and costumes, by themselves, don't degrade the image quality in the way that photochemically-composited VFX may have (in some cases). I think that most of us here, though, understand that the original VFX needs to be acknowledged and preserved, whether seamlessly branched or presented on an alternate disc, as a concrete duty to film history.

This is the biggest conundrum for me when it comes to the idea of releasing an OUT on blu-ray. Everyone has a different opinion of what it should be, and that's just in the die-hard  fan sector. Add that to the casual fan and or viewer, along with the people at Disney. In each if these sectors, you have different levels of interest when it comes to the details (matte lines, colors, sound mix, ect)  in each version as well as differing knowledge of what details encompass a specific version of OUT. Basically what I'm saying is there is no consensus, which is a potential problem.

Windexed said:

This is the biggest conundrum for me when it comes to the idea of releasing an OUT on blu-ray. Everyone has a different opinion of what it should be, and that's just in the die-hard  fan sector. Add that to the casual fan and or viewer, along with the people at Disney. In each if these sectors, you have different levels of interest when it comes to the details (matte lines, colors, sound mix, ect)  in each version as well as differing knowledge of what details encompass a specific version of OUT. Basically what I'm saying is there is no consensus, which is a potential problem.

There's no consensus, but there's a very simple solution: scan an IP, grade to a good release print, fix annoying temporal anomalies (e.g., flicker), dirt/scratch clean, encode, and release.

I don't see how anyone can argue against a "this is the original, as it was" release.

If some fans want improved SPFX, then they can do it on their own with this kind of release; on the other hand, if some fans want an accurate representation of the original SPFX, then only this kind of release satisfies that desire.

An as-unfucked-with-as-possible OOT release benefits everyone.

I don't think disney is interested in releasing the pre-SE's. Just like they don't care about releasing theatrical versions of their own films.

RU.08 said:

I don't think disney is interested in releasing the pre-SE's. Just like they don't care about releasing theatrical versions of their own films.

I don't know about that. They definitely seem interested in winning back "old fans" with a lot of the stuff they're doing for VII.

I personally think the BR of Close Encounters of the Third Kind looks pretty fantastic, and this was released the same year as ANH.  I'm sure it didn't have as many theatrical runs and the negative didn't suffer the same fate as ANH, but it's worth viewing (and kind of a gauge) when the sentiment "I don't want to watch the movies as they were back then" comes up.