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Can I change my answer on Aliens? I have a new favorite.
Can I change my answer on Aliens? I have a new favorite.
Yeah, that could be true. It's been a while, when do they say the Xenomorph only lives a day or two?zombie84 said:
I don't see why it isn't plausible that in the absence of a queen, a lone alien could instigate an alternate reproductive process where eggs can be created out of hosts. Its like how some reptiles and amphibians can change their genders in a single-gender environment in order to ensure procreation, a cool survival mechanism. According to Alien, the creatures have a lifespan of only a day or two, which is evolutionary suicide unless every specimen can reproduce on the spot, which in the film is exactly what it starts doing from the moment it matures. It also explains why it would be attacking and carrying off people if there was no queen. So, a queen can be used for mass-producing eggs in a colony/hive environment, or single specimens can reproduce using hosts on a one-to-one basis for pure survival reasons.
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At the end of the film it's crawled into the lifeboat piping to die, until Ripley forces it out with the steam, which is one reason why it's so sluggish when it gets up. I guess it's not overtly stated or anything, but that was supposed to be the idea.
Veeeeeery interesting. I thought it was just hiding. Make a lot of sense now. Still don't care for the cocoon thing, I like the idea that it was all alone and just tearing crap up for the heck of it.zombie84 said:
At the end of the film it's crawled into the lifeboat piping to die, until Ripley forces it out with the steam, which is one reason why it's so sluggish when it gets up. I guess it's not overtly stated or anything, but that was supposed to be the idea.
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I don't think it was hiding away in the shuttle because it was dying. That doesn't make any sense to me.
I do, however, agree that its dragging away Dallas and Brett to turn them into eggs is extremely cool; so much so that I find the whole concept of the queen in the sequel to be kind of a let-down for shunting this idea off and ignoring it. Aliens is a good movie to be sure but it doesn't always jive with the way things were presented in the first one, or with other ideas that were more clearly stated in the original script.
The cocoon scene in the director's cut of Alien does interrupt the pacing, making it an inferior version of the movie to the theatrical release; but contrary to what many seem to think, it doesn't screw up the pace just for the fact that it exists. Rather, the reason it doesn't work is because they put it into the wrong part of the movie altogether. The scene is scripted and shot to happen before Ripley activates the self-destruct, but inexplicably the re-edit places it after, which makes it seem very bizarre indeed that she would stop and have a chat or even bother to torch them at all when the ship is going to explode in a few minutes! All the logic of the scene goes right out the window with it edited this way.
A proper fan-edit could put it back where it belongs to greater effect; but it would have to take care to eliminate the background alarm sounds for the impending self-destruct from the mix in order to make it work.
According to the liner notes for the Intrada score release, the workprint scored by Jerry Goldsmith did have a version of this scene (and in its proper place), but that Dallas and Brett were nowhere to be found--Ripley only came across alien eggs and growths on the walls, and torched those. The music cue for this unused version of the scene begins similarly to the also-unused cue for when Kane first found the eggs on the planet, a sort of pulsing 'liquid' sound made by plucked strings recorded through an echoplex. Like so much of the music Goldsmith wrote for Alien, none of this is heard in the finished film at all, which is an absolute disgrace.
Sorry, to revive this old thread, I just wanted to move the Blade Runner discussion from here to somewhere, where it was on topic:
n00b said:
Harmy said:
Oh, no! "Minor" corrections like those in Blade Runner FC would be absolutely unacceptable for an OOT release - it would destroy the historical integrity of the movies and while it would be the same cut, it wouldn't be the same original version - I've said it a million times before but I guess I'll have to say it again - if you say some fixes could be made, then it is up for debate, what's still acceptable and what is not and you'll get a million different people with million different opinions - some would draw the line at matte-lines, some at blue R2 and others at expanded Cloud City windows, whereas, if you say the original version warts and all, there's nothing to debate - the goal is to restore the movie as close as possible to the way it looked on opening day.
I understand your point and have to agree but as I said, minor corrections are unacceptable for the Despecialized Edition as they would make it a mixture of official versions. Shaw's eyebrows are a different thing though but there's still hope that the manual stabilization pays off. If not, I also think that they should be omitted unless there's a 35mm source.
Of course, I also favor the historical integrity of an unaltered theatrical version but a slighty polished release by Disney would still be ten times better than any official release right now.
Oh, and talking about Blade Runner, some of the new composites in the Final Cut actually look worse than the old ones and you don't have to go far into the movie - the 1st shot will do:
http://s25.postimg.org/nsyjfoaa5/Blade_Runner.jpgThe top is the original, bottom is the FC - now it is not quite as obvious in a still frame as it is in movement, so if you have the set, I recommend popping the discs in and checking it out for yourselves but those circled dark areas, which are nice smooth gradients in the original, become weird shimmering black blobs in the re-composited version and they bear unmistakable signs of bad digital keying - it caught my eye immediately the first time I put the disc in and I was like what the eff!?
Question: Which version do you prefer overall? In my opinion, the Domestic Cut is the awful version while I don't have real preferences between the Director's Cut and the Final Cut. For me, the developement of this movie is the complete opposite of Star Wars.
I do actually prefer the original international cut - I saw the DC first, because that was the only version, which came out on DVD before the big box set but didn't really fall in love with the movie until I found a LD rip of the original cut and I was super happy, when that version was part of the official release. I rented the Final Cut on DVD, when it first came out and then re-watched it, when I bought the BD but I just love the noir-like narration, which while perhaps unnecessary to the story just adds to the atmosphere for me, and I even prefer the happy ending (sue me). Plus, in the FC, the movie lost some of it's magic by re-compositing the effects and altering the colors, so even if I wanted to watch the version more in line with Ridley Scott's original vision, I'd go for the DC.
OK, now while I'm at it and I posted in this three years old thread, why not answer the other questions as well:
Apocalypse Now: I've only seen the Reudx version once, when I first bought the BD and it dragged on horribly, the theatrical cut is definitely better in my opinion.
Alien: I'm not even sure I've seen the DC. The extra scenes can be played on the BD as deleted scenes, so I've definitely seen them but I'm not sure if I ever watched the moive with the scenes integrated.
Aliens: Definitely prefer the SE - much more emotional and character driven cut of the movie.
Terminator 2: I don't really have a preference here. It just depends on how long a film I'm in the mood for.
Apocalypse Now - Original
Alien - Original
Aliens - SE
Blade Runner - DC
Terminator 2 - Original
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Alien- Theatrical, I don't like cocoon scene.
Aliens- Special Edition, adds some good stuff
Blade Runner- the Final Cut, I like visual improvements and the ending
真実
Alien Theatrical- I don't mind any of the additional scenes in the DC, apart from the cocoon scene. Chop that out add all the rest to the theatrical and that would be a very sweet cut.
Aliens SE- interesting, this film I grew up watching the SE. A few years later I saw the theatrical and felt there were bits missing. I have a friend who grew up with the theatrical and can't stand the SE as he feels all the added stuff was unnecessary. Is everything in every film we enjoy necessary? I think this one depends on what you are used too.
T2 - I preferred the SE only because it cleared up a couple of continuity errors apparent in the theatrical due to cuts. I don't think I have seen an alternative ending so I am not sure which version of the SE I have actually seen? how many versions of this film are there? T2 is just great fun so I can watch either the theatrical or SE without issue. if I have to choose then SE.
Apocalypse Now- I have only seen the theatrical not reudx. I have been meaning to watch reudx for years and have always heard good things about it from friends... Reading this thread seems to suggest that its not well loved so I will have to make the effort to watch and make up my own mind.
Blade Runner- My favorite film. I think the DC is my favorite. It was the first version I saw, then the theatrical. The theatrical is interesting but the happy ending just feels tacked on. The FC I really enjoy, but the colour correction is too matrix, and although I really enjoyed the cleaned up visuals, to back up Harmy some of the shots were not re-comped as well as they could of been. The workprint is a nice dirty grungy looking thing. Really interesting.
Alien 3 The (*directors cut*)- I think is a much better version as far as pacing and character development. However I do miss the dog. The dog is a pet and so I feel more tense with seeing the dog in pain than a dead Ox. I think Alien 3 is a very underrated film and always has been. Sure its not like aliens, but then aliens is not like alien. Could you imagine any studio green lighting the alien 3 script now?
Highlander 2 Renegade SE- I know that this film is shit.....but its a guilty pleasure. Sorry I know what you all think of me now and you are right. The SE did at least sort out the transitions and add the missing 15 mins from the 3rd act which at least made it more viewable that the theatrical version. Also the VFX were cleaned up nicely.
I am an editor by trade, and every time I look at one of my past projects I always find myself making changes. Some time will pass and with fresh eyes I think right that can be tidied up, or right I can re-do that a bit better. Its a strange thing. I loved Harmy's DE 1.0, watched them to death. Then I updated and got the 2.0, then 2.1 and now 2.5.If I enjoyed 1.0 so much why do I then get the next updated version??? Because its closer to the theatrical and thats what I want to see? Yes, accept again If I was happy enough with version 1.0 why did I even feel a need to see the updates? Why does the idea of the theatrical version even matter if I enjoyed 1.0 so much? Why do I look forward to Ady's ESB R If I am happy with the Harmy 2.0? I enjoy different versions for different reasons, its very hard to apply the word definitive to film.
please excuse my bad grammar and sentence structure, I have bad dyslexia which unfortunately makes me appear to be a moron in text.
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peter_pan said:
Alien 3 The (*directors cut*)- I think is a much better version as far as pacing and character development. However I do miss the dog. The dog is a pet and so I feel more tense with seeing the dog in pain than a dead Ox. I think Alien 3 is a very underrated film and always has been. Sure its not like aliens, but then aliens is not like alien. Could you imagine any studio green lighting the alien 3 script now?
I like Alien3 too. I think it is pretty much in par with Aliens, considering the last 30 minutes of Aliens is quite ridiculous.
I prefer the extended version as well. A slight correction though, it is not really a "director's cut" since the director refused to participate. It is actually labelled as "assembly cut".
真実
Blade Runner - Final Cut (followed by the Director's Cut). I think it may depend on which version you've seen first and what kind of movies you're into in general. As I prefer Japanese movies, I like neither the over-explanation nor the artificial atmosphere of voice-over narration. Plus, the happiest ending of my 10 favourite movies is from A Clockwork Orange and the fact that Blade Runner's happy end is just stock footage from Shining doesn't make it any better.
Apocalypse Now - Theatrical Cut. Redux has so many unnecessary added scenes of lower quality than the rest movie that Kurtz' Compound just seems like another unimportant stage of the never-ending journey. And I hate the exotic 2:1 aspect ratio.
Alien - Theatrical Cut. I also hate the cocoon scene because it's overly complicated for the first movie and doesn't make any sense without a queen (and even less after the activation of the self-destruct).
Aliens - Haven't seen the Director's Cut yet.
Terminator 2 - Haven't seen the Director's Cut yet.
Harmy said:
Sorry, to revive this old thread
You should be ashamed of yourself.
Apocalypse Now: I haven't seen it and don't plan to, so I have no preference.
Alien: I haven't seen it and don't plan to, so I have no preference.
Aliens: I haven't seen it and don't plan to, so I have no preference.
Blade Runner: I haven't seen it and don't plan to, so I have no preference.
Terminator 2: I haven't seen it and don't plan to, so I have no preference.
^Philistine!
Apocalypse now: Original
Alien: Original
Aliens: Original
Blade Runner: Final Cut
Terminator 2: Original, I guess. Didn't know there was a director's cut.
RicOlie_2 said:
Apocalypse Now: I haven't seen it and don't plan to, so I have no preference.
Alien: I haven't seen it and don't plan to, so I have no preference.
Aliens: I haven't seen it and don't plan to, so I have no preference.
Blade Runner: I haven't seen it and don't plan to, so I have no preference.
Terminator 2: I haven't seen it and don't plan to, so I have no preference.
UGh[nnop hahhr9u- 1h7-beit JI 0E-TH9U IU0TH U390BIBbui bidg huisdvb ihrgu9bEW 0BUIW GBU0W GU9sdvjkowueig huwi GBIw huviwbhg0heg02u9g-
I’m just here because I’m driving tonight.
^Profanity so profane not even the site's software can handle it.
Tack said:
RicOlie_2 said:
Apocalypse Now: I haven't seen it and don't plan to, so I have no preference.
Alien: I haven't seen it and don't plan to, so I have no preference.
Aliens: I haven't seen it and don't plan to, so I have no preference.
Blade Runner: I haven't seen it and don't plan to, so I have no preference.
Terminator 2: I haven't seen it and don't plan to, so I have no preference.
UGh[nnop hahhr9u- 1h7-beit JI 0E-TH9U IU0TH U390BIBbui bidg huisdvb ihrgu9bEW 0BUIW GBU0W GU9sdvjkowueig huwi GBIw huviwbhg0heg02u9g-
Let's see if I can interpret this mess of insults:
UGh
That's fairly obvious
[nnop
I imagine this is intended as an emphatic "nope."
hahhr
Insane laughter...
9u
I've just been told to "9" myself, the nine being euphemistic for 69.
- 1h7
Trying to sneakily say "I hate," with me obviously being the subject of mentioned strong detestation.
-beit
Now this is getting serious! He just insulted me in French, but badly misspelled the word in question, which is "bête," meaning "beast."
JI 0E
The pronunciations of "G" and "J" in French are more or less the reverse of the English (with a \zh\ sound rather than a \j\ sound, however), so this is a sneaky way of saying G.I. Joe (the missing letter being written in invisible ink).
-TH9U
Alright, so he's going to G.I. Joe me through...
IU0TH
...my tooth? Not entirely sure on this one.
U390BIBbui
Alright, so there are three people he's insulting, wearing ninety bibs. He says "booey" to us all.
bidg
Abbreviation of "bigot."
huisdvb
He says something about Huey's DVD. Ha! He wrote the second "d" backwards. I remember that I used to have trouble with that when I was younger too. :)
ihrgu9bEW
"I Hope Ric's Grandma U*******;" here, he writes "benign" backwards, to signify that he wishes the opposite, and finishes by saying he wants it to be bad enough to make either him or me, or perhaps both of us go "EW!"
0BUIW
Here he seems to be almost done. He is continuing to write using only the first letters of words: "Oh Bye, U, I Win."
GBU0W
His farewell appears to be very insistant, as he continues: "Good Bye U, Oh, What (now)!?"
GU9sdvjkowueig
This is so rude I don't feel like decoding it for the rest of you. It includes telling me to "9" myself again. :(
huwi
He reminds me of this "Huey" fellow again.
GBIw
"Good Bye [yet again], (I Wish!)" (He either seems to have given up hoping I will go away, or has something he just must tell me before finally being rid of me.)
huviwbhg0heg02u9g-
"huviewbhg" = "You view big," or in other words, "You're fat."
"0heg0": Designed to look like the oncoming headlights of a vehicle? Perhaps he wishes me to be struck by a car? Ah, no, I've got it now. It's "Oh, he go," which is short for "oh, there he goes," probably one of the other two people he was insulting storming off.
"2u9g-": Now he says it's to "us nine?" I'm confused. "g-" could mean "good bye" or "good riddance," though he presumably intended to strike out the "g" instead.
I have now proven that I have too much time on my hands and that this Taco guy (I can't remember his name and am to lazy to scroll up to see it) is terrible at insulting people.
^Best reply to a response EVA!
Apocalypse Now - Theatrical all the way. Can't stand the Redux cut.
Alien - Theatrical as well, but I don't hate the DC. I just think the Dallas coccoon scene kills the pacing of the last act.
Aliens - Special Edition overall, though I'd prefer a version without the pre-Marine-landing colonist scenes.
Blade Runner - Final Cut overall, though I eventually want to do a fan edit that recreates the Final Cut with original footage (to keep the old effects and color timing), removes the unicorn vision, and restores the "fucker" line.
Terminator 2 - Either one. I guess I probably prefer the extended cut for the scene where they flip the switch on the T-800's processor, but like Harmy said, it depends on how long a movie I feel like watching at the time.
I'd also like to throw in a mention of Kingdom of Heaven, because if you've only seen the theatrical cut of that movie, you owe it to yourself to track down the Director's Cut. It's one of my favorite historical epic movies of all time, but the studio butchered it for theaters.
And since I'm already throwing in more movies than the topic asks for, and no one I've ever talked to agrees with me on this:
The Fellowship of the Ring - Extended Edition
The Two Towers - Extended Edition
The Return of the King - Theatrical Cut
ROTK is just too bloated in it's EE form, but the first two movies benefit greatly from their extra scenes.
RicOlie_2 said:
I have now proven that I have too much time on my hands and that this Taco guy (I can't remember his name and am to lazy to scroll up to see it) is terrible at insulting people.
Wow... You won without chucking barely an insult. I applaud you.
But you still have five great films to see in the near future.
Also, it's Tack.
T - A - C - K... The Cobbler.
I’m just here because I’m driving tonight.
Apocalypse Now
I have yet to watch any version.
Alien
Theatrical.
Aliens
I don't think I've seen the special edition, but it likely wouldn't matter as I didn't like the movie either of the two times I watched it, so neither.
Blade Runner
Whichever non-theatrical version I saw.
Terminator 2
Special edition.
Erik Pancakes said:
The Fellowship of the Ring - Extended Edition
The Two Towers - Extended Edition
The Return of the King - Theatrical Cut
ROTK is just too bloated in it's EE form, but the first two movies benefit greatly from their extra scenes.
I agree, though I could go either way with Fellowship as I think that while the added scenes are nice and very interesting in on themselves, they don't necessarily make the experience of the movie better (nor worse). TTT is another thing completely - the EE is a vastly superior movie experience. And ROTK EE is not only bloated but a lot of the added stuff is kind of stupid (falling skulls, spoiling the reveal of the fleet being taken over by the dead army, Mouth of Sauron and much much more) plus the effects on the added stuff are kind of cheap looking.
Alien is a movie that needs the big screen. You need to be completely enveloped it the setting. I don't see the point in small screen versions.
Ryan McAvoy said:
Alien - Original
Aliens - SE
I saw both Director's cuts in a double-bill at Halloween. The first time I'd seen both films on the silver screen (In any cut). The experience was somewhat different than it is at home.
Alien - I wasn't a fan of the DC anyway but the added Cocoon scene felt much worse with an audience. Even given it's probable misplacement, there were a lot of laughs from many in the packed cinema at how jarring the drop/increase in pacing and tension was when it was cut in. An oddly nervous "Well that was wierd" kind of laugh. 'Alien' is so perfectly paced in the original cut, it gets "faster and more intense" exponentionally as the movie progresses. The Cocoon scene slams on the breaks, wherever you put it the final act.
Aliens - I've got to change my opinion on the SE of this. When viewed at home (with the metaphorical ability to pause and make a cup of tea) the extra scenes feel welcome, emotional, well integrated and the pacing consistent. But wow, in the cinema when you're taking that 'Aliens' non-stop-rollercoaster ride, with the thundering score and ratcheting tension, it's like the ride has broken down during those added scenes.
Also as a side note... I've always been a fan of A3, I probably saw it before Alien. But watching the two films back-to-back in rapid succession made me dislike 'Alien 3' for the first time and perhaps see why others were irked by it. Nevermind about killing off Hicks and Newt, the real problem is continuing the Alien franchise at all. Having the Alien race survive largely invalidates Ripley's character arc across the first two films to some degree.
It's like she journeys into the depths of hell (The atmosphere-processor) to face the devil and regain her soul. You can't have Ripley cast satan down, only for Satan to pop up again in the third film and say "Oops missed me". When she settles down to sleep at the end of Aliens, you know it's the peaceful sleep of knowing that she's removed the "real monsters" (That Newt speaks of) from the world. You know Ripley will never have a troubled dream as long as she lives. The ending has such finality... but oh oh, think again Ellen! This franchise is making too much money ;-)
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