Info: James Bond - Laserdisc Preservations: 1962-1971 — Page 27

Williarob said:

FanFiltration said:

superbond said:

Hello, i've browsed this forum for many years but this is my first post.

Been a big fan of the original 3 "Banned Bond" releases and listened to those commentaries a few times now- thank you FF for bringing them to DVD.

Wanted to ask had there been any further projects that have been released since? either conversions or perhaps some of the audio tracks from the LD's?

...

Could you please tell me? On the "Banned Bond" version of "From Russia With Love" that you have, does it have a music and effects only track as an audio option?

 

 No, the Music and Effects track was not included as an option on your Banned Bond version. Would love to hear it though!

Also, did you ever complete that Thunderball LD capture you were working on?

 No I did not.

FanFiltration said:

Here are some comparisons from the different laserdisc versions of "Goldfinger".

 

THX BOX SET

 

The Criterion Collection

 

The Connery Collection

THX BOX SET

 

The Criterion Collection

 

The Connery Collection

 

THX BOX SET

 

The Criterion Collection

 

The Connery Collection

 

 

This is how all three appear on CRT. I now have all three, and the Criterion is indeed direct from a print source that appears to be of an older release printing. It has an emphasis in darker blue/greens but I don't know if could be Technicolor in origin. The CC version has a bit of increased contrast but appears to be more normalized in terms of color and does not have the shift in the Criterion. The THX version has a much more delicate and golden hue overall and is easily the best appearing, richest colored version on LD. The MGM versions are from Interpositives as far as I can tell. The THX version is a differently sourced master as well. The mono has been cleaned up too, but only the Criterion has the title song in mono.

Two new additions to add to the growing comparisons:

TLD on the old CBS Fox LD holds up quite well despite the pan and scan. Color is outstanding with a bit of harsh white backlight reminiscent of a print. The white skies of the opening are now very white lit. Gunbarrel, opening shot and titles are in scope and even these hold up pretty well. Dial back the contrast a bit in the interiors and you have a nice looking picture. The analog stereo appears to have the surround encoding, Quality is very good. Overall, I'm really impressed with this. If it had been letterboxed the color should match the later MGM disc but a touch softer due to the earlier pressing date.

And...now I have a new top 5 entry. Moonraker looked terrible on the WS LD, and you get used to it. It is very noisy and lacking in fine details with a very video-y look in many scenes that are filled with noise. The audio was outstanding however.

The rare THX reissue fixes ALL the video problems, has a different color balance that is better for home viewing, and is among the best I've ever seen in Bond LDs. By this time LD mastering had become an art form, and it's near DVD on a good CRT. The audio seems to have been remixed slightly in EQ, going back and forth makes the THX PCM track seem a bit more balanced to the low end and surrounds with a slight less emphasis on the highs as found in the earlier disc which may have been a bit too bright.

If I nitpick, and I do, the THX MR disc is great but the earlier one may have some coloring that better replicates 35mm. The new transfer though has a better rendering of overall color shading, for example the many instances of brown that crop up in the film and its sets. M's office in the old disc is a mess of lines, noise and artifacts. The THX is gorgeously free of these and the color in the walls really pops out.

EDIT: I popped in the SE DVD, and they are the same transfer. The LD is so good that it almost matches the DVD on a CRT, the DVD being technically better over component. The 5.1 ac3 is the same on both @ 384 kbp/s. The PCM and 5.1 on the THX LD are the same mix, and I'll have to go over with headphones to compare to the older discs PCM track but I think the audio on the later copies may have been slightly remixed.

It looks as if MGM had done all the films over for their announced and later canceled THX LD releases in 1998. Only six ever came out before cancellation and then came the SE DVDs. The video is the same. This way we have a perfectly useable GOUT-like source for the entire series to work from as a reference.

If some useable 35mm frames can be found we can finally have a proper basis to work from. For years we've only been able to guess at if the MGM work was correct.

It's merely a general reference, and we try to also compare to any film frames we come across. The happy medium would be somewhere between the better of the older transfers and the Lowry/MGM stuff but of course colored by someone who was competent and referenced vintage material.

At this time, I'm convinced that the best way we can present something watchable is to sync LD audio to SE video ala our old GOUT projects. Almost all of them are okay and the same as their LD counterparts-save with better resolution despite the low bitrates.

Does anyone here have the old THX DVDs for the first three films? I've come across some references that claim that while the SEs were the same and added the bonus features, that the old discs were 1.66 like their LD counterparts. Can anybody confirm this?

captainsolo said:

Does anyone here have the old THX DVDs for the first three films?

 I also have these three THX Bond DVDs. Now my curiosity is peeked, so I'll have to have a look as well.

Thanks for the assist guys. Indeed the Goldfinger transfer is identical.

SE:

http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/humphreybogart1941/media/snapshot_dvd_001042_20141114_114759_zpsbdb03d5d.jpg.html?filters[user]=141930851&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=2

http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/humphreybogart1941/media/snapshot_dvd_001131_20141114_114357_zpsa54c5285.jpg.html?filters[user]=141930851&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=3

UE:

http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/humphreybogart1941/media/snapshot_dvd_001034_20141114_115845_zpscfde15f3.jpg.html?filters[user]=141930851&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=0

http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/humphreybogart1941/media/snapshot_dvd_001034_20141114_115845_zpscfde15f3.jpg.html?filters[user]=141930851&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=0

The crop is really not that bad. The 1.78 or so recalls the Young approved 1.75 Criterion framing and is essentially how I have seen the early films projected here in rep houses. I don't think they really worried about losing too much of the frame at that point because of the US screen difference and/or improper projections. Looking at the 1.66 comparison again, you only lose top and bottom with a slight loss to the sides. God, I forgot just how soft and putrid the UE was!

Wow, that fullframe transfer actually is open matte! Like most it does crop from the sides but it does beg the question what the full camera aperture would look like.

I'd be tempted to buy these, but most are probably bad like even some SEs. I still need another FYEO. You have to rip backups of these at some point, like all the faulty Universal Monster Legacy sets.

Our compatriots at 007 Dossier have transferred a 35mm IB Tech trailer of YOLT...CLICK IT NOOOW!

http://www.the007dossier.com/007dossier/post/2014/11/14/You-Only-Live-Twice-35mm-IB-Tech-Trailer

Here is my comment from over there:

a drooling captainsolo said:

Wow, just wow! First of all it's strange to see this as I'm so used to the teaser version on LD shown here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Secondly I love the "lamb" comment and that may be the sharpest ever rendering of Connery's scope gunbarrel pose.

But finally after being called silly for upholding the LD/SE DVD look for so long, THAT is how YOLT is SUPPOSED to look!!! It may be printed a bit warmer as some trailers were, but for all intents and purposes this gives you the general idea and is extremely similar to my favored LD/SE transfer that at least still looks like the film. What is most striking is the footage's prevalence of browns; this seems to be something that couldn't be replicated in the telecine transfers originally done in the late 80's/early 90's and is NOWHERE to be found post 2006.

Just gorgeous, a taste of what a print would look like and exactly some of the same blacks I was shocked to see in a vintage print of THUNDERBALL. (Which are of course nowhere on the Lowry messes. The 1989 LD has the deepest color rendering, and if an IB trailer ever shows up, it would likely look like this I would think.)

Like I said, this Tech trailer reflects the LD/SE timing in terms of the yellow cast and brightness level for the most part. What is most striking is the deeper black level and prevalence of browns.

Now I'm wondering about Sean's overdubbed lines in the trailers...I'm guessing it was for publicity only but in this there is an added line at the bath and in the teaser I linked an extra dubbed line with Bond and Aki: "Even better in the dark".

Ookay so if you're a nut like me this might be of some interest. After viewing that wonderful IB Tech trailer I sat down for a bit with my various copies of YOLT, trailers across videos, and the IB Tech trailer.

I did this on my calibrated Trinitron CRT. Here's what was really interesting when going back and forth between all of them. Comparing all the trailers, shows that this IB Tech scan is from a US 1967 trailer with the US narration, cropped form the scope original. The UK narrated version found on all DVDs is the same footage but in scope. (The so-called US version merely dubs the US narrated voice onto this same scope trailer). Comparing the two reveals that the brown of this IB Tech wasn't in the original and may have partially resulted from the cropping. (I've seen this happen often on trailers of this vintage if cropped. Not sure why it happens.) Most striking is the teaser trailer only found on the 1989 LD. (Can be seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaoS9yH3tks)

When comparing my 89 LD, 93 LD form the Connery Collection Vol. 2, 1997 pan n scan VHS, SE DVD and UE DVD this way I found an odd thing...it appears that the SE DVD was a quiet remaster which would be in keeping with the abandoned THX Laserdisc reissue series that was scrapped in 1998 and all ported over to the SE DVD line. For example: The VHS and LDs have a cropped and off center gunbarrel that was fixed for the SE DVD. What is most striking is the difference in overall color tonality.

I had always assumed that the SE was the rough equivalent of the LDs and that when the UE was made no one had taken the time to dial back in the proper color timing akin to the theatrical release. In comparing all four, it shows this: The 1989 and 1993 repressing LDs are virtually identical, with the latter being maybe pressed slightly better and having perhaps just a touch difference in skintones. The SE is far more detailed but has increased noise and an overall blanket of this brown-yellow cast that is only fully apparent when looking at each copy in succession. The UE is the most detailed because of the later scan but as usual appears as if it had been bled dry of color.

The odd thing really is that the 89/93 LD appears to fall somewhere between the SE and UE. I don't know if MGM scanned a Technicolor print for the proposed THX LD or something but it is certainly a different transfer from the LDs.

The scene I used for checking was the opening and especially Ling's apartment. In Bond's initial closeup in bed it should be possible to see Sean's tan lines around the neck and forearms. The UE makes this glaringly obvious, the SE has him far more reddish and thus obscures much of this, and the LD allows for a bit of both. Also, the walls are a general mix of browns, but this is pushed to the maximum in the SE.

Now I really need to get that stinking blu-ray....

EDIT: After this experience and my observations on the THX Moonraker LD, I don't think it's always safe to assume the SE DVD/THX LDs will match their counterparts from the 1989 LD series and previous. It seems that starting with the Thunderball CAV box in 1995 MGM began working on new transfers for each film.

I am selling my Technicolor You Only Live Twice Trailer, if anyone is interested... http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?icep_ff3=2&pub=5575033532&toolid=10001&campid=5337201588&customid=35mm_Yolt&icep_item=151520866580&ipn=psmain&icep_vectorid=229466&kwid=902099&mtid=824&kw=lg

I broke in my DMR-ES25 comb filter with the CAV Criterion Dr. No.

As many say sometimes just going by screencaps alone cannot fully articulate in motion differences. The color is more saturated, all reel change marks are present, but what is most striking is how well the color pops throughout and how much it appears the MGM was either brightened or from an IP. I now see why Terrence Young signed off on this. It looks really damn good.

The Criterion is far darker, and the color is far richer. Interiors have much deeper tones to all the walls and sets, skin tones are far more natural looking than the slightly whitish we're used to, but in the exteriors things really take off. Any of the outdoor scenes, especially Bond getting out of the taxi to meet Quarrel are striking.

The soundtrack appears to be slightly different as well, in terms of the levels of the effects. I noted that some of my favorite effects were a bit different, for example the engine noise during close shot of Leiter-Quarrel's car when tailing Bond booms out to a distorted cutoff on all versions I've ever heard but here instead it does not and you can actually hear more of the car engine. The overall noise floor is quite good for what is apparently sourced from optical....but there is one glaring difference. In the closing credits the James Bond theme is reprised, but instead of fading out early and having the horn note go completely out of pitch as on all other versions, there is a slight jump and the theme starts back a bit and then carries onto a black screen for a few seconds. Perhaps this was Criterion's attempt to fix the original error?

In any case the track is so good it should be preserved with the cleaner MGM mono.

I messaged Jon Mulvaney @ Criterion about transfer info if any exists. Hopefully someone knows somewhere, as there are no printed materials with the discs.

I only discovered this because I was playing with my two LD players, comb filter and Dr. No.

The Criterion CAV and MGM CLV Connery Collection...are from the same print!

They have the exact same damage marks, the exact same reel change markers, the exact same everything which I verified by switching back and forth on exact still frames. The Criterion is cropped on top and right, and the MGM opens these up to a noticeable degree. The Criterion is far darker and features much more heavily saturated color levels. The MGM appears to be slightly more accurate to what is on the negative probably but does appears to have been a bit brightened in terms of contrast, whereas the Criterion would mimic more of an original print. The middle ground would be best because the skin tones appear more accurate on the MGM for example.

This would explain the somewhat contrasty look of the Connery collection titles I've always noticed and why they are gone on the Criterions and even the CAV THX Goldfinger box, which was supposedly mastered from a new print struck off the negative in 1994.

I'm wondering if the transfer was possibly the same. Apparently Criterion could have licensed their work back to MGM or took the rough scan from MGM and did their own disc. In any case the later MGM edition attempts to "correct" the transfer for CRT or be from a better machine. I will do a comparison with Goldfinger, but am still missing the CAV FRWL.

Comparing the Criterion, Connery and SE DVD reveals that probably around the THX reissues all the films may have gotten spruced up. The few Lasers that trickled out predated the SE DVD which were essentially direct ports. Comparing the three reveals Dr. No is the same overall print source but received a slight cleanup as some more obtrusive marks are gone but others remain intact. Aspect ratio breaks down like this:

MGM appears as somewhere around 1.55:1, Criterion crops right and top to closer to 1.60, and the SE DVD crops a bit of the right edge from the Criterion along a significant portion of the bottom and gives back a pixel line from the top for a 1.78 frame.

Tell me I don't study these films enough...

I Just borrowed a huge collection of 35mm and 16mm James Bond film reels from a private collector (just trailers and TV spots - sadly no full features) but there is some pretty rare stuff like original Black and White TV spots from the 1960s like this one:

http://www.the007dossier.com/007dossier/post/2015/01/09/Rare-Original-16mm-Dr-No-BW-TV-Spots-in-HD

which never made it onto the DVD special features. More of this collection will be posted over the next few weeks.

Also, to raise some money, I am selling some of the items in my collection, including many of the 35mm trailers, if anyone is interested:

http://www.the007dossier.com/007dossier/page/For-Sale

(Sorry, don't want to derail the thread, but I thought all of this might be of interest to some of you and it didn't seem worth starting a new thread.)

Don't worry, this has become the sort of Bond repository. 

I'd love some of those trailers if I had either the spare cash or means to properly store and project them! I truly appreciate you and your team's work on these, they are a treasure.

More of captainsolo's truly obsessed ramblings on 007 Lasers:

Goldfinger

...

We know how 2001 is Kubrick's approved transfer on the early Criterion which has different color than the MGM, but had to be sourced from 35mm and is slightly hazy in comparison to the later MGM CLV disc which was able to use the 70mm print to source a new transfer. The MGM had completely inaccurate color and had to be redone for the later CAV 25th anniversary boxset reissue. The same transfer was used but this time in full CAV and with redone color to better match the Criterion and SK's approval.

Goldfinger follows the EXACT same pattern. Comparing the Criterion CAV, Connery Collection CLV from MGM and the full CAV anniversary boxset from MGM reveals that:

1. The Criterion is print sourced of some type: with dropouts in the audio, some crackle and pops, some distortion. But there are no visible reel change markers  which could indicate a non-release print.

2. The Criterion has vastly deep color that is VERY VERY saturated like their Dr. No.

3. The MGM CC CLV disc has none of this color, appears much brighter as if contrast was boosted, yet has much better detail as if from a higher generation element. This is even visible on CLV compared to the Criterion CAV, just like the visual superiority on the equivalent discs of 2001.

4. The CAV boxset has even more detail and redone color. It was supposedly form a new print struck off the negative. However close comparison reveals many of the same marks and defects in the CLV disc's transfer. It appears as if this was yet again another recoloring and reissue on CAV of an earlier brightened disc.

5. The color of the CAV is closer to the Criterion but much more normalized. if watching the CLV if one deepened the color, turned down the contrast and brightness levels, the image would begin to look like the new look of the CAV set.

6. The CAV set has edge enhancement though that seems to not be present on the CLV disc. It was also reframed slightly, losing some headroom and gaining a few lines on the right side of the frame.

7. Both PCM mono tracks on the MGM's are clean and appear virtually the same. The CAV may have been cleaned up a bit more.

8. The Criterion correctly has the titles in mono, both MGM's replace it with the more common stereo version due to revisionism. They also did this on their North by Northwest disc.

9. The Criterion is the ONLY release to ever feature the missing frames from Oddjob driving Mr. Solo.

So there you have it. Since there was such a discrepancy between the Criterion and MGM Dr. No discs, which use the same print, i cannot exactly tell which color is always accurate. Terrence Young signed off on the Criterion discs for DN and FRWL, but the recolored MGM CAV Goldfinger is probably more accurate to the negative source.

Thus, it seems if you want the most vintage experience possible, try Criterion for something more akin too early 60's printing. The MGM's offer better detail but not necessarily as striking color.

Goldfinger continued:

The CAV THX and SE DVD are the same source. The DVD has greater reproduction of the color and detail but the LD is no slouch. It may actually be a touch more natural looking. Both have the edge enhancement slathered all over. The DVD may have gotten a fresh run through of the print source as it has some extra bits of dirt not on the THX laser but otherwise it is the same. The DVD crops mostly in the top of the frame with maybe a line or two from the bottom. none of the crop really wrecks composition but it does make the headroom a bit cramped.Also of note, all these MGMs seem to open the frame to something closer to a 1.55:1 ratio. The THX Goldfinger is a bit less than this but it doesn't seem to be 1.66:1 either.

The Criterion is supposedly 1.75 and has a few extra lines on the left edge and significantly more in the bottom when compared to the SE.

The UE has the most picture area, but loses all color and depth compared to any other transfer.

Final verdict: MGM CAV/SE DVD for color re-timing to better match the negative. Has the delicate golden hues associated with this film. (most notable in the golf scenes-look for the grass) The Criterion may be a bit too boosted in the reds and blues, but does have a more vintage look to it. The Connery Collection was too bright and too brown. Thus the MGM strikes the best balance between the two.

The UE pays no regard to anything.

Best scenes for comparison: Teaser opening, Bond catching the card cheat, Discovery of Jill, Golf scenes. The scenes in the hotel room show the most fluctuation in color.

Thunderball

Same print element used for 1989 LD, 1993 Connery Collection II, THX CAV LD, and SE DVD.

1. 1989 disc has slightly elevated contrast, and overall different color tone. Some pale-ish skin tones. Mono with variations.

2. 1993 CC reissue is same master, but colors were boosted and contrast dialed down a touch. Skin tones that were pale-ish are now red-orange-ish. Walls and stationary objects more vibrant. Mono with variations.

3. 1995 THX CAV LD utilizes same source print, but seems to be a new transfer of the print. Detail jumps ahead in leaps and bounds, but has EE. New color timing is more like the 1989 subdued rich color look, but there are many shots where you see a level of black more like a 35mm print of the era. Most notable is in the hotel room with Derval and Fiona in bed. Remixes stereo surround with alternate track. Opening gunbarrel has dropout in matrixed right rear, fixed for 1998 reissue and DVD.

4. SE DVD increases detail over CAV set, but same transfer and master. Identical, but the matrixed track is in DD 5.1 discrete @ 448 kbp/s.

Before I go further, is it just me or does the Lowry DVD and BD seem to be  different? The BD has this strange purplish cast all over which I don't recall being on anything else.

-The Lowry UE sucks out all the color of any of the previous editions. Any semblance of Technicolor is gone, along with all grain. 5.1 mixes seem to be new and not the 1995 stereo remix.

-BD appears different, some of the old color has come back in, grain and vertical lines reappear. The vertical lines are visible on all the LDs with comb filter, and the SE DVD. The 5.1 DTS-HDMA seems to be the 1995 stereo remix.

Take a look at the shot of Bond donning the helmet for the Bell rocket belt. The 1989, CC, Lowry have the background plate of the chateau normally colored. But on the CAV, SE and Blu-ray this has gone purplish. There are a few other things that seem to suggest that perhaps this one for some reason was further tinkered with by MGM/Fox for the Blu-ray release.

Also, reports have been filtering in that versions are on Netflix without the squeezed titles. They may or may not be from the 4K DCPs which have been being quietly released in art houses and repertory.

Guys, if and when we do Thunderball, I'm thinking maybe a new hybrid mono mix with the stereo variations?

YOLT has the same thing going on: CC Vol. 2 is color boosted in skin tones and backgrounds over the 1989 release. SE DVD goes even further.

The colder and brighter 1989 disc better matches the IB Tech trailer.