Turisu said:
Thanks for those comparison pics. So interesting how they differ.
I agree that the 35mm shots look best. It's amazing how close the BD comes to them in a couple of those pics, apart from the general lack of saturation and the blues being more pushed towards green. I really thought the tealified BD would be a radical departure from how the original print looked but, going by these 35mm sources, perhaps it's not as far out as people assume.
The really problem with the Aliens BD (outside of the grain) is the blanket green tint. Those particular scenes that don't have the strong green tint actually look pretty good.
Turisu said:
PDB said:
Funny you mentioned that. I am no Harmy by any stretch of the imagination (no way I can do rotoscoping) but I do have a few old HDTV Aliens masters that I was going to try and substitute the frames back into the film. That way I can put the hole back in and the scratches on the window.
It's widely considered that the BD transfer of Aliens had fake grain applied to enhance the perception of detail. So with the proper color correction and a similar fake grain plate, I'll bet the HDTV frames would blend almost seamlessly with the BD source. :)
That's what I'm thinking and hoping for.
TServo2049 said:
I'm not sure if the 35mm trailer exactly match the release print grading. To point to another Cameron example, the original trailers for Terminator 2 have ungraded nighttime footage with natural skin tones, while the clips on the Siskel and Ebert review, the YouTube 35mm screening clip, and a few film frames I've seen, all seem to show that the theatrical prints had those pumped-up blues we know from all the home releases.
That said, teal existed in the 80s. I've seen an original 35mm of Streets of Fire that has a very similar palette to that Aliens 35mm trailer. The Terminator theatrical trailer (which I've seen on two separate occasions) also has a similar color scheme. The problem is that the color balancing done in the digital realm works completely differently from the original photochemical timing. Even if the general color scheme looks similar, the balance of those colors in the digital realm, and the way certain colors can be completely timed out of the image, were impossible when the films were originally made/released. You just couldn't push everything towards teal/green and drop all blue out of the image - there was ALWAYS blue in the color timing back in the 80s.
That said, it also wouldn't surprise me if the '95 LD was somehow adjusted (Photochemically? After transfer?) to pump up the blues. Those deep, sometimes almost indigo blues remind me more of the 90s than the 80s (reminds me of Jurassic Park, Independence Day, and of course T2). Was that LD the theatrical cut, or the Special Edition?
You are absolutely right Tservo. Trailers are not a good source to color grade off of since they sometimes don't have final color timing. I pointed that out myself back a couple of pages when I first posted pics from the trailer. I'm just trying to gather as much evidence as to the look of Aliens without a 35mm release print to work with. This is just some detective work.
Case in point I have been comparing Aliens two trailers against each other and found a spot where the color timing is different, clearly a result of photo chemical timing. But that difference actually helps me figure out a few things.
I agree with you about Teal/Blue existing in the 80s and before. And Cameron always loved his blues. From the Abyss on he was incorporating them as much as possible into his films. Problem is did he have them in Aliens? The BD has been re-timed to remove any hint of blue and replace most colors and tints with green.
StarThoughts said:
The THX LD was of the theatrical cut, it came out with a wave of Dolby AC-3 releases. The extended version was only in the CAV box set, as I recall.
TServo2049 said:
What does the color on the extended LD look like?
bigrob said:
StarThoughts said:
The THX LD was of the theatrical cut, it came out with a wave of Dolby AC-3 releases. The extended version was only in the CAV box set, as I recall.
Thats correct. I own both of these editions and can confirm
Yep that's right. The THX is theatrical only. I don't have the extended edition anymore. Lost it in a move long ago. I have been reluctant to pick up a copy since it is a notorious rotter and the picture on it was terrible. Full of over the top noise (there is a whole story about that). I would like to know what it looks like though.
So I had an idea. I gathered all the picture information from the 35mm trailer(s) I could gather. I wanted to try an experiment. I created a color "average" of how the BD and the 35mm differ. What I was looking for is; if I applied a general grade to Aliens, what would that look like. Would other scenes look like they do from the trailers? Or the DVD, LD, BD, what have you.
So does it work? Yes and no. More yes then no since a few scenes still seem to have a little green from the BD. And some scenes go randomly of in the wrong direction color-wise. Also, you really need to grade cut by cut to recreate "true" color grading. Having said that I'm pretty happy with it as an experiment. The colors are somewhere between the DVD and LD. More saturated then the DVD not crazy like the LD. Like the close up of Ripley talking to Burke is redish like the LD. The interiors of Gateway station are red like the LD. On the other hand LV-426 are light blue like the DVD not over saturated like the LD. Overall if I had to call it, it seems more LD then DVD. Compare these pics to the ones above and on the first page.
Aliens overall graded to 35mm trailer
This was a first test. I also created a less red more blue version which ended up having very cool timing, a more DVD look and more "Cameron" but the skin tones are too pale compared to the 35mm frames.
BD/BD regraded to 35mm "red" version/BD regraded to 35mm "blue" version
Work on Alien continues