4K restoration on Star Wars — Page 39

Well I'm no expert on the subject and I'm sure you know way more about this stuff than I do, so hopefully they'll realize that it's the wrong decision. I didn't realize that it was a more complicated process than I thought, so hopefully they'll know better than to re-composite anything, because I agree that that would no longer be the original effect. 

Well, the matte-lines are usually what distinguishes the original shot from the recomped one. They are almost never as visible as in the Rancor scene though. Here are some examples:

You guys are probably right. I honestly couldn't even tell there were matte lines on those pictures. If they're releasing the OUT, especially if they're releasing it alongside the SE, I'd be surprised if they tamper with the matte lines. I've never been bothered by them, so I never really understood why the shots were recomposited to begin with.

Another thing I wanted to mention was the lightsabers in the RMW video. They don't look like the 04 versions to me and they don't look like the originals, but since the colors are different it's really hard for my eyes to compare the two images, but I think these lightsaber cores in the videos look a lot different from the blu ray. Also, as for the blue escape pod door, I think earlier in the thread somebody pointed out different damage etc. that was not on the Special Edition, so I don't think that it's an old image from the DVD project, but I suppose it could be. I'm not sure, it also depends on whether they gave both the OT and the SE the 4K treatment, so maybe they decided to put some of both in their demo reals, but I don't know if that makes sense, I'm just guessing at this point.

Handman said:

moviefreakedmind said:

...but I don't know if that makes sense, I'm just guessing at this point.

That's basically the entire thread in a nutshell.

 Sure, but I'm making completely baseless assumptions at this point :-)

im looking at those examples and except for the hoth speeder and last image of MF, I cant really see any lines.  And yes, going off of my best memory, the only lines I recall are the rancor scenes. 

Harmy, I watched your 1.0 of the OOT last week and don't recall seeing any and im assuming you didnt remove.

the differences I do see in all examples is that the overall image is more faded as opposed to the recomped versions.  and seperate elements are more faded than others.  I thik I recall Joe Lettieri saying that this was likely done in order to avoid matte lines.

anyway, I guess the thing I would want to know is if all the elements were recomposited, cleaned up and restored using the latest/greatest tech, would that just naturally result in reduced matte lines and keeping the image integrity of all elements?  if so, i think that would be ok.  Its probably not practical to optically recomp the elements anymore than it is to chemically remaster a film as opposed to digitally.  The equipment probably does not even exist anymore(?)

OTOH, if it doesnt and removal of matte lines involves scribbling them out like how wire work is scribbled out, that to me is tinkering.

Harmy, It sounds like you confirmed that if they did a modern recomp but used same elements, it likely could reduce the matte lines.  Your opinion is that it would be a compromised release, but then the only other alternative would be to remaster an IP with all the elements already composited, right?  dang, im so rusty on this stuff.

@baronlando - I always knew money was no issue, but i was shocked to see it that low, lol.  I was never comfortable with the idea of Robert Harris offering to restore the OOT for free because i think that was one of the things that encouraged Lucas' behavior and attitude for everything he does.  He had so many people over the years that would either do things for free or below market rate because we all love SW.  But if those estimates are true, I can understand why mr. harris wouldnt mind doing it pro bono ;P  As for the SW thread, you are a braver and more patient man than I ;P

The original negative already has the effects composited - yes, the removal of the matte-lines would be a byproduct of recompositing, which would destroy the integrity of the effects. If someone would find the link to that article I always quote to back up that the compositing is an important part of the original effects, I'd apprecite it (I'm on my phone).

And all those shots in my previous post have clear matte-lines - look closely at the edges of the ships, they all have thin darker lines around them. And remember, that in those examples, the originals are from GOUT, which accounts for much of what you may call "faded" look.

Harmy said:

 If someone would find the link to that article I always quote to back up that the compositing is an important part of the original effects, I'd apprecite it (I'm on my phone).

 

is this it:

http://www.theasc.com/magazine/starwars/articles/empire/comop/pg1.htm 

did some digging and found it in this post you had

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Complete-Comparison-of-Special-Edition-Visual-Changes/post/687712/#TopicPost687712

Yes, that's it, thank you!

Why cannot Disney have an archival version of the films as they were,  and also do their own version if they want. 

Or does competing versions not work? 

I mean the 2011 version is what is Canon going forward i assume. 

Unless the sequel trilogy films are made in such a way that any version is okay.

No, the whole discussion is about whether it would be ok to recomposite FX shots in an unaltered version - I would have no problem with a version with fixed-up effects existing, as long as the true original is released as well. All I'm saying is, that a version with recomposited could not be called an unaltered version, because it would be altered a great deal.

I understand but was not that the original aim of the special edition to just fix a couple of bad shots.  Clean up the soundtrack and picture.

Then when Lucas got Fox to pay for the whole thing he used it as an excuse to play with his computers as free r&d for the prequels.

Ruining 3 classic films in the process and then deciding the other version had to quietly disappear.

Does Disney ever release a catalog title unaltered?

As to a Faux theatrical version not interested, scan an IP or whatever and get it out there unless a massive restoration is necessary to save the films.

Does starting from the negatives anyway produce a much different product than the original theatrical release print even if nothing is altered?

Well, I do think it's safe to assume that the original negative pieces that were removed and replaced by Special Edition crap have been placed in storage somewhere. I do think that all of the original (not '97) negative were chemically restored before they did the Special Edition additions, so I think that all of the original negative would be at Disney's disposal, but I also think it's safe to assume that the cut parts are in rougher shape than the '97 negative so that could be the problems referred to in that recent comicbook.com rumor (assuming that it's an honest rumor that is). I'd imagine that Lucasfilm's warehouse is probably pretty well organized since Lucas held on to everything for those 20 years between the theatrical release of Star Wars and the Special Editions, and it hasn't even been that long since then so I'd be surprised if any has been lost, especially since the "Empire of Dreams" documentary crew supposedly had access to the Holiday Special tape, and I'm sure if Lucas wanted to destroy anything, it would've been that. I also am assuming that after that expensive restoration in the 90's the negatives were maintained better than they were back in the 80's, but that's just a guess.

moviefreakedmind said:

[snip] I'd imagine that Lucasfilm's warehouse is probably pretty well organized since Lucas held on to everything for those 20 years between the theatrical release of Star Wars and the Special Editions, and it hasn't even been that long since then so I'd be surprised if any has been lost, especially since the "Empire of Dreams" documentary crew supposedly had access to the Holiday Special tape, and I'm sure if Lucas wanted to destroy anything, it would've been that.

I have been meaning to revisit 'Empire of Dreams'; I don't think I've watched it again in ten years - since back when the first Trilogy DVD set came out.