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Doctor Who — Page 47

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^LOL

No seriously. It was okay and a positive sign of things to come.

Some of the moments last night were up there with the best scenes in the shows history.

"Who frowned me this face?"

"You have a whole room for not being asleep?"

and that look to camera when half face man departed the restaurant.

The beginning was a bit laboured but amusing none the less, the way he went from insisting he wasn't flirting with the genuinely tragic Ms Rex only to disregard her charred corpse as yet another victim was pure Colin Baker.

Not too keen on the title sequence and that version of theme tune is going to take even more getting used to than either of Matt Smith's.

I hear bits of Telstar which itself must have taken inspiration from Delia's original arrangement.  It's not quite as uneasy on the ear as the McCoy era theme.

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[spoilers]

Ok, I watched the episode last night and it left me with questions. 

  1. How did the Tardis get swallowed by a dinosaur?   Last time we saw, the Doctor has just regenerated and it became clear the Tardis was crashing and the Doctor asked Clara if she knew how to fly the Tardis.  Next thing we know its Victorian London and the dinosaur just materializes with the Tardis in its throat.  Did I miss something?   How did it get there?  How did the crashing Tardis wind up in the Jurassic age to be swallowed by the Dinoaur?  I wasn't aware that at the end of the events in the Christmas episode, that they had set course for the Jurassic age.  The did the same sort of thing with the 'The Name Of The Doctor' and 'The Day of the Doctor'  It is was never explained how the Doctor and Clara got out of the Doctor's time stream.  I do wish when they end an episode in a cliffhanger, that they would resolve it at the begining of the next episode.
  2. The Doctor implies that his previously self actually choose the new Doctor's in order to send him a message.   As far as I know, the Doctor has never been able to choose his next face.   I know he tried selecting face in the "Wargames", but that was because the Timelords were forcing his regeneration and presumably they had the power to select the Doctor's face.   If he can chose, why doesn't just select ginger as his hair color? He always seems to want it.   Why did the  eighth Doctor need that potion in order to select "a warrior".  Also didn't the 5th doctor say "you never know what you're going to end up with"?
  3. The Doctor keeps saying that the whoe thing of the androids taking human body parts and whatnot keep reminding him of something.   Is that something that happened in a previous episode that I have missed?
  4. Why was Clara so unaccepting of the new Doctor?   She saw the regeneration.  Mel, who didn't see the 6th Doctor regeneration into the 7th Doctor accepted the 7th doctor much much sooner.  Also she had the benifit of being in the Doctor's time steam and seeing all his selves and she saw the War Doctor and the 10th Doctors in "The Day of the Doctor".   She should be much more accepting and understanding of his changed appearance
  5. Finally, who was the lady at appeared at the end of the story with the android, that asked if her boyfriend(which is implied is the Doctor) hurt the android?  Is she someone I am supposed to recognize?   

 

Would have been nice to seem him pick his new clothes, as has been done in past regeneration stories.

[/end spoilers]

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HotRod said:

Well, that was the most boring thing I've watched in a long time. 

What a pile of shit

 While I wouldn't describe it as the greatest thing I have ever seen, I wouldn't call it a pile of s**t.

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Warbler said:

How did the Tardis get swallowed by a dinosaur?

It was supposed to be unexplained. Just bit of silliness to start the episode. He didn't know how to fly the Tardis so he crashed it into a T-Rex then the Thames. You've overthought that one ;-)

Warbler said:

As far as I know, the Doctor has never been able to choose his next face

The regeneration rules change all the time, always have. Continuity is gonna be a bit wonky with a 50 year Sci-Fi show. Still they make a damn good effort mostly.

Warbler said:

The Doctor keeps saying that the whoe thing of the androids taking human body parts and whatnot keep reminding him of something.   Is that something that happened in a previous episode that I have missed?

I'm not sure on this one, let's ask an expert. Bingowings, is this a callback? Proto-Cybermen perhaps?

Warbler said:

Why was Clara so unaccepting of the new Doctor?

In the story Clara and her feelings were a proxy for the show's legion of very new fair-weather fans who have never seen an old Doctor. It was like Clara was reading out a Doctor Who message board written by 14 year olds instead of a script. I found that element of the episode really annoying. I don't need reassuring about the change to Capaldi, I was absolutely delighted!

Warbler said:

who was the lady at appeared at the end of the story with the android, that asked if her boyfriend(which is implied is the Doctor) hurt the android?  Is she someone I am supposed to recognize?   

She was the meta-physical representation of the Tardis (99% sure it was anyway?). I liked how the set seemed to reference the Tardis cloister set from Logopolis...

btw My favourite part was when The Doctor whispered "Sometimes I wish you were Amy" underneath his breath, so Clara couldn't quite hear. Big LOL moment.

VIZ TOP TIPS! - PARENTS. Impress your children by showing them a floppy disk and telling them it’s a 3D model of a save icon.

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Ryan McAvoy said:

Warbler said:

How did the Tardis get swallowed by a dinosaur?

It was supposed to be unexplained. Just bit of silliness to start the episode. He didn't know how to fly the Tardis so he crashed it into a T-Rex then the Thames. You've overthought that one ;-)

Nonetheless, I would have preferred it if the episode had started in the Tardis, right where the Christmas special ended.

Warbler said:

As far as I know, the Doctor has never been able to choose his next face

The regeneration rules change all the time, always have. Continuity is gonna be a bit wonky with a 50 year Sci-Fi show. Still they make a damn good effort mostly.

They may have changed, but not that much.  Also the Continuity isn't wonky because of the age of the shows, its wonky due to carelessness and lack of effort on the part of writers, producers, and directors.   They just haven't cared about continuity as much as they should. 

Warbler said:

Why was Clara so unaccepting of the new Doctor?

In the story Clara and her feelings were a proxy for the show's legion of very new fair-weather fans who have never seen an old Doctor. It was like Clara was reading out a Doctor Who message board written by 14 year olds instead of a script. I found that element of the episode really annoying. I don't need reassuring about the change to Capaldi, I was absolutely delighted!

Have these people never heard of William Hartnell? 

Warbler said:

who was the lady at appeared at the end of the story with the android, that asked if her boyfriend(which is implied is the Doctor) hurt the android?  Is she someone I am supposed to recognize?   

She was the meta-physical representation of the Tardis. I liked how the set seemed to reference the Tardis cloister set from Logopolis...

 If that is the case, than imho, it makes absolutely no sense.  Are you saying the android is sort of inside the Tardis now????

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Warbler said:

Warbler said:

who was the lady at appeared at the end of the story with the android, that asked if her boyfriend(which is implied is the Doctor) hurt the android?  Is she someone I am supposed to recognize?   

She was the meta-physical representation of the Tardis.

 If that is the case, than imho, it makes absolutely no sense.  Are you saying the android is sort of inside the Tardis now????

 Actually after reading around a bit on Google, no other Who fan seems to think she was the Tardis, so I'm probably waaaay off on that one. It just seemed like it to me.

VIZ TOP TIPS! - PARENTS. Impress your children by showing them a floppy disk and telling them it’s a 3D model of a save icon.

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The something that happened before is The Girl In The Fireplace where the sister ship of the SS Marie Antoinette had a similar fate and sent her malfunctioning clockwork robots back in time to harvest the brain of he the real Mme De Pompadour.

Though the plot is very similar to the a couple of Big Finish stories Phantasmagoria had a building similar to the restaurant (a gambling club where the patrons are being processed) and The Harvest had Cybermen replacing their mechanical components with human parts using a hospital for cover.

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My thoughts after two viewings;

It's always an adjustment when the Doctor is someone else. I've been through this several times before, I'll roll with it this time too. It was wonderful to see Clara again, the Paternosters again, and 11 again. Those helped with the transition. Clara is far and away the companion I connect with the most.  I also think she's been the most cerebral.  As an actress in the role, Jenna has upped the game.

I'm fine with giving Capaldi a chance to make the character his own, just as all the other actors have. We're a single episode in and, to me, the franchise still seems to be in good hands. No complaints here. Cautiously optimistic and hoping for the best.

I definitely connected with the episode's theme of prejudice due to the lack of physical beauty (Vastra as well as the Doctor). Very profound her saying she wears a veil not to hide from the people who don't accept her, but instead to pass judgement on them.

I will say though, the end, with 11, made me realize how much I miss him. I'll need some time to let this settle. Few more viewings. Always nice to see the Paternoster Gang. Love Vastra. At one point, there was a nice nod to her being Scottish.

I thought the moment where there is an admission that Clara and the Doctor had been boyfriend\girlfriend the past year was one of the best emotional exchanges in the episode.

When the Doctor is lamenting that he's made mistakes and needs to start doing something about them, it was suddenly moving for him to say that thinking he was her boyfriend was his mistake. Clara was quick to defend herself, but he just as quickly let her off the hook, while exposing a weakness on his part. At that moment I felt the 11th and the 12th as the same person. I thought the Doctor stating "You look at me, but you don't see me. Do you have any idea what that's like?" was very moving.

In fact, I thought that entire scene - Clara on the phone, 11 asking for help, the struggle to accept prejudice - was the finest passage in the show by far. He's not just an angry Doctor, he's a broken Doctor. He's angry with himself, plus he now has to work harder to be accepted.  I think that will serve the show well. It turns out our hero isn't better than us - he's a different version of us.

I thought the other moving exchange was Clara tearfully taking Vastra to task - "How dare you?!".  Clara was right to call-out Vastra.  They needed to finally come to terms with one another and Vastra was off the mark in her harshness.

Digging the new steampunk credits.  Nice change.  I watch an episode every night of the year (literally), so I'm fine with a change and still see the others regularly.

In closing;  A huge adjustment for sure, but no complaints.

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Anchorhead said:
I thought the moment where there is an admission that Clara and the Doctor had been boyfriend\girlfriend the past year

there was an admission of this?  I think I know the scene you are talking about, but I diddn't interpret it that way.

When the Doctor is lamenting that he's made mistakes and needs to start doing something about them,

I would love to know just what these mistakes are.

it was suddenly moving for him to say that thinking he was her boyfriend was his mistake. Clara was quick to defend herself, but he just as quickly let her off the hook, while exposing a weakness on his part.

must have missed that part.

He's not just an angry Doctor, he's a broken Doctor. He's angry with himself,

He is angry and broken??  I didn't get that from the episode.  What is he angry about?  how is he broken?  what caused?   Why is is angry about himself?

 It turns out our hero isn't better than us - he's a different version of us.

He isn't?  He's saved earth more than I can count.  He's saved countless innocent lives over the years.

Digging the new steampunk credits.  Nice change.  I watch an episode every night of the year (literally), so I'm fine with a change and still see the others regularly.

Not sure what I think of the opening yet, I will give it time before I form an opinion one way or the other.  

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Warb;  there was an admission of this?  I think I know the scene you are talking about, but I diddn't interpret it that way.

It was mentioned twice in such a way that we are led to believe that Clara saw them as a couple.  Vastra also intimates that she assumes Clara thought the same thing. 

Turns out that it was both of them who saw themselves as more than casual friends.  In She Said, He Said, Clara all but confirms it by saying she has to fight to keep from falling in love with him "sometimes twice a day".

I would love to know just what these mistakes are.

Season 8.

must have missed that part.

Outside the TARDIS in Scotland.

He is angry and broken??  I didn't get that from the episode.  What is he angry about?  how is he broken?  what caused?   Why is is angry about himself?

Angry about past mistakes.  Angry that he cost the dinosaur her life. Broken in his realization he's not being taken seriously because of his looks.  Broken in his realization about his relationship with Clara.

He isn't?  He's saved earth more than I can count.  He's saved countless innocent lives over the years.

No two ways about it, he's done incredible things. However, he's not infallible and there is a precedent. His depression and anger have been shown before. In the past he's gone into isolation over personal issues; The Bells Of Saint John.

He's also gone into isolation over depression. As Vastra said in The Snowmen; "Kind, yes.  A hero even. A saver of worlds. But he suffered losses which hurt him. Now he prefers isolation to the possibility of pain's return"

This time he appears to be more angry over the past (and his personal present). Instead of withdrawing, he looks to have a chip on his shoulder.

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Anchorhead said:

Warb;  there was an admission of this?  I think I know the scene you are talking about, but I diddn't interpret it that way.

It was mentioned twice in such a way that we are led to believe that Clara saw them as a couple.  Vastra also intimates that she assumes Clara thought the same thing. 

Turns out that it was both of them who saw themselves as more than casual friends.  In She Said, He Said, Clara all but confirms it by saying she has to fight to keep from falling in love with him "sometimes twice a day".

maybe you are right.   I guess I missed it because I am an old fashioned Doctor Who fan that doesn't like the new series idea of the Doctor having romances with his companions.

I would love to know just what these mistakes are.

Season 8.

by that do you mean that we will find out what these mistakes are in the course of the season?

He is angry and broken??  I didn't get that from the episode.  What is he angry about?  how is he broken?  what caused?   Why is is angry about himself?

Angry about past mistakes.  Angry that he cost the dinosaur her life.

the Dinosaur isn't his fault.  True he brought to Victorian London, but he is not the one that burned it to a crisp.

Broken in his realization he's not being taken seriously because of his looks. 

he wasn't???

Broken in his realization about his relationship with Clara.

perhaps you are correct about this one.  like I said, not a fan the Doctor/companion romance.

He isn't?  He's saved earth more than I can count.  He's saved countless innocent lives over the years.

No two ways about it, he's done incredible things. However, he's not infallible and there is a precedent. His depression and anger have been shown before. In the past he's gone into isolation over personal issues; The Bells Of Saint John.

He's also gone into isolation over depression. As Vastra said in The Snowmen; "Kind, yes.  A hero even. A saver of worlds. But he suffered losses which hurt him. Now he prefers isolation to the possibility of pain's return"

This time he appears to be more angry over the past (and his personal present). Instead of withdrawing, he looks to have a chip on his shoulder.

 *sigh* I miss the old days when he was just the hero timelord fighting the villian/monster of the week.

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...I liked it... :c

Ol’ George has the GOUT, I see.

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I was underwhelmed. The music was far too bombastic and goofy, and much to loud in the mix. I kept having that been there, done that feeling. I've been watching this show for far too long. The mood of the episode seemed very disjointed, going from frolicking fun to dark and depressing. I like my episodes to be ether dramatic or tong-in-cheek goofy, but not a combination. Kind of like in the original Star Trek, "Trouble With Tribbles" was goofy, and "Balance of Terror" was dramatic. Both are great Star Trek, but the tone of the episodes stays constant. The other is the over selling of the sexual relationship and  flirting of secondary characters. I did not care for it in "Torchwood"ether. The "call" was just unnecessary and I felt it kind of insulting.

Rating: 4/10  (Quite Disappointing)   

“First feel fear, then get angry. Then go with your life into the fight.” - Bill Mollison

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Okay, so this one was a dud. The next one will be better... right?! Well I hope it is!!

Ol’ George has the GOUT, I see.

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I watched it again tonight and managed to like it even more.

Compare it Rose (the episode not the goofy chav) and it's almost a masterpiece.

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I didn't like it.  The plot was nothing but bits from old Moffat scripts,the new Doctor was never given a chance to stand on his own two feet either being overshadowed by the other characters or the last Doctor,and Clara was written as a fan girl on the internet and came off as just being mad that the Doctor is not a pretty boy any more,I can't believe this is the same character who jumped into the Doctor's time stream and saw him in the last moments of the time war,I will have hard time liking the character after this.  i liked her before but I think the spoiled fan girl act broke the character beyond repair. Oh and the story was the most slow paced in the series history and I have no idea what the new Doctor's personality is or why he is so depressed.  i swear Marven the paranoid Android has a more cheery out look on life. This new doctor has one note and that is suicidally depressed. This is the first Doctor in the history of the show that I didn't like by the end of his first story. I am saying this as a Moffat fan and someone who has defended him in the past but i think it is time for him to go.  His female characters have lost all personality,he is out of ideas for stories,and he has reduced the Doctor to a depressing bore that I really don't want to spend time with because he seems to suck the life out of every scene he is in and every person around him.  Again i am saying this as a Moffat fan but i think it is time for the guard to change.

I was excited by the idea of getting an older Doctor again and after the events of the last story I thought the Doctor would have a new lust for life but instead he has just gone down the same depressed path that the series has been heading down the past few seasons.  I wouldn't want to travel with him,in fact I wouldn't want to spend five minutes with him because he is such a depressed wreck he makes me want to slit my own wrists.  The Doctor is supposed to bring out the best in people,not leave them wondering what the point of life is.  This depressed Doctor may have stood a chance if the story gave us some hint as to why he is depressed but it didn't,he just won a major victory and got a whole new set of lives and all he does with them is mope.

Maybe the series it's self needs a rest and I hate saying that but right now it feels tired and depressing. 

I don't know about anyone else but I don't watch Doctor who in order to feel depressed and have the Doctor tell me how pointless life is.  I'm sorry I know I will catch flack but for the first time in history I didn't like a Doctor and I really found the whole story to be a depressing bore that went completely by the numbers and had no sense of energy or excitement to it.  I am not even sure I will watch next week's episode and that is a first in the history of the show for me.

My rating for this story is 1/10.  Sorry I am a fan of Moffat's work and I really wanted to like this but nothing in it worked for me.

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It even riffed the patchwork people from Gaiman's The Doctor's Wife but it's still much better than the burping bins and plastic Mickey show.

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Bingowings said:

...it's still much better than the burping bins and plastic Mickey show.

 Every episode without the tin dog Mickey is better than one with him.  My thoughts on Mickey mirror Rose's in her first episode;

ROSE: Thanks.
MICKEY: Thanks for what?
ROSE: Exactly.

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Oh disagree.

Rose was awful to the poor guy. Everytime he tried to move on she would turn up again with her wonder friends to rub his nose in it.

He rang true, the Doctor and Rose however were smug and uncomfortable to watch.

I was a bit miffed by the signals sent out by having Martha and Mickey both split up from their mixed ethnicity relationships and end up together. Sure it happens but we don't get enough positive examples of this sort of thing working so having them both fail and end up together left a sour taste.

Rory is sort of Mickey treated right by both Doctor and writer.

The cartoonish aspect of Mickey in that episode felt more like a spoof of JNT Doctor Who than a genuine use of the same concept seen in the first two Auton stories.

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Bingowings said:

Oh disagree.

Rose was awful to the poor guy. Everytime he tried to move on she would turn up again with her wonder friends to rub his nose in it.

He rang true, the Doctor and Rose however were smug and uncomfortable to watch.

I was a bit miffed by the signals sent out by having Martha and Mickey both split up from their mixed ethnicity relationships and end up together. Sure it happens but we don't get enough positive examples of this sort of thing working so having them both fail and end up together left a sour taste.

Rory is sort of Mickey treated right by both Doctor and writer.

The cartoonish aspect of Mickey in that episode felt more like a spoof of JNT Doctor Who than a genuine use of the same concept seen in the first two Auton stories.

 I couldn't agree more.  In fact when I saw Martha and Mickey together I turned to the person watching with me and asked "Why are they together,because they are both black?!" that just felt so weird.

I am glad they finally got it right with Rory.

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Warbler said:



 *sigh* I miss the old days when he was just the hero timelord fighting the villian/monster of the week.

Have to say that as a casual watcher and non-fan I agree. There's something oddly atonal about the concept and the way it's currently being presented. Much as I usually support it, I'm not sure Doctor Who is meant for truly serialized storytelling in this fashion.

FanFiltration's point about the music supports my theory on the tone clash, actually. I gathered with some friends for the premiere of this last episode and lost interest midway through, opting to hang out with the other skeptics outside. When we heard the score at times through the windows, it was like they were watching some big epic movie. I'm not sure Doctor Who fits that at all. If anything, I'd say it should be scored like theater cues - coming in or fading out as appropriate to get people's attention, but never omnipresent underscoring the way it is in the show currently.

Then again, I may just have issues with the fact that budget limitations keep the show from properly conveying "epic." My suspension of disbelief wouldn't be as hard to maintain if the tone matched the low-quality of certain visual effects. Though I will say, I enjoyed what I saw of Capaldi as the Doctor. I will probably tune in from time to time.

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

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bkev said:

Warbler said:



 *sigh* I miss the old days when he was just the hero timelord fighting the villian/monster of the week.


Have to say that as a casual watcher and non-fan I agree. There's something oddly atonal about the concept and the way it's currently being presented. Much as I usually support it, I'm not sure Doctor Who is meant for truly serialized storytelling in this fashion.

FanFiltration's point about the music supports my theory on the tone clash, actually. I gathered with some friends for the premiere of this last episode and lost interest midway through, opting to hang out with the other skeptics outside. When we heard the score at times through the windows, it was like they were watching some big epic movie. I'm not sure Doctor Who fits that at all. If anything, I'd say it should be scored like theater cues - coming in or fading out as appropriate to get people's attention, but never omnipresent underscoring the way it is in the show currently.

Then again, I may just have issues with the fact that budget limitations keep the show from properly conveying "epic." My suspension of disbelief wouldn't be as hard to maintain if the tone matched the low-quality of certain visual effects. Though I will say, I enjoyed what I saw of Capaldi as the Doctor. I will probably tune in from time to time.

 Again couldn't agree more.  I am burnt out on The Doctor going up against some big enemy that is a threat to all of time and space every single season. The whole string pulling villain is just played out for me and I would just like to see the Doctor bumble into messes on alien planets for a while now.

Oh and the music is way too loud,I can't hear half the dialog any more and I have great hearing and an amazing sound system so you know that is bad. It reminds me of in TNG when Rick Berman fired Ron Jones and had all of his scores replaced with wall paper music that was always there and always loud.  it didn't ad anything,in fact it distracted from what was happening on screen.

Things need to be toned down and the formula needs to be broken ASAP.

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It would be nice if he just wandered around taking a general interest in things and being kind to strangers for a few years.

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Bingowings said:

It would be nice if he just wandered around taking a general interest in things and being kind to strangers for a few years.

 Yes exactly.  That is what got me into the show in the first place when I started watching on PBS.  I like these other shows but what made Doctor Who stand out was that unlike Star Trek he wasn't on a mission and unlike the XFiles there were not plots being hatched around him that he had no choice but to become involved with. The Doctor was just an average guy(for a timelord)who wondered around and when he saw someone in trouble helped them because it was the right thing to do not because some super being was following him everywhere and setting him up.

I would love to see a return to the classic adventure format because I mean it I am so burnt out on this every season having a super villain thing that I am not sure I will keep watching. It's so played out and it has been done in every way it can be done.

What was fresh a decade ago is now stale and I want something new.