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Harmy's THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK Despecialized Edition HD - V2.0 - MKV & AVCHD (Released) — Page 101

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So I checked the audio again, and I think I can safely promise there are no errors, at least none that are of my doing.  The source tracks do slightly distort occasionally, but that's part of the recordings themselves—some of these same problems can also be heard in the SE.  I'm simply not hearing any other problems, so I have to assume they are either nonexistent or are related to playback equipment and/or room acoustics, and not the audio itself.

I should also point out—and please treat this information seriously—that the 5.1 mix was designed for high performance sound systems and may not give ideal results on equipment that cannot cope with wide dynamic range material and high levels of bass.  It will also not sound its best if downmixed to stereo.  Obviously I have no control over how people listen to it, so it was necessary to do a bit of tweaking to the surround channels in order to make stereo playback at least sound acceptable (it would have been quite horrible if I hadn't done this, due to excessive comb filtering from out of phase signals).  But since the 35mm stereo mix is itself very good, I must recommend that anyone watching the movie with a 2-channel sound system choose that version instead, rather than downmixing the 5.1 mix.  Content-wise they are identical, and the greater midrange emphasis of its EQ makes it more suitable for the kinds of sound systems people are likely to have.

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hairy_hen said:

So I checked the audio again, and I think I can safely promise there are no errors, at least none that are of my doing.  The source tracks do slightly distort occasionally, but that's part of the recordings themselves—some of these same problems can also be heard in the SE.  I'm simply not hearing any other problems, so I have to assume they are either nonexistent or are related to playback equipment and/or room acoustics, and not the audio itself.

I should also point out—and please treat this information seriously—that the 5.1 mix was designed for high performance sound systems and may not give ideal results on equipment that cannot cope with wide dynamic range material and high levels of bass.  It will also not sound its best if downmixed to stereo.  Obviously I have no control over how people listen to it, so it was necessary to do a bit of tweaking to the surround channels in order to make stereo playback at least sound acceptable (it would have been quite horrible if I hadn't done this, due to excessive comb filtering from out of phase signals).  But since the 35mm stereo mix is itself very good, I must recommend that anyone watching the movie with a 2-channel sound system choose that version instead, rather than downmixing the 5.1 mix.  Content-wise they are identical, and the greater midrange emphasis of its EQ makes it more suitable for the kinds of sound systems people are likely to have.

 too much information...

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Stinky-Dinkins said:

TV's Frink said:

Stinky-Dinkins said:

Watched it. It looks superb man, top notch work as usual.

 C'mon, you can't come back to the forum with such a boring post.

I've been in the corner masturbating the entire time asshole! Now who's the boring creep?

 Better.

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hairy_hen said:

So I checked the audio again, and I think I can safely promise there are no errors, at least none that are of my doing.  The source tracks do slightly distort occasionally, but that's part of the recordings themselves—some of these same problems can also be heard in the SE.  I'm simply not hearing any other problems, so I have to assume they are either nonexistent or are related to playback equipment and/or room acoustics, and not the audio itself.

I should also point out—and please treat this information seriously—that the 5.1 mix was designed for high performance sound systems and may not give ideal results on equipment that cannot cope with wide dynamic range material and high levels of bass.  It will also not sound its best if downmixed to stereo.  Obviously I have no control over how people listen to it, so it was necessary to do a bit of tweaking to the surround channels in order to make stereo playback at least sound acceptable (it would have been quite horrible if I hadn't done this, due to excessive comb filtering from out of phase signals).  But since the 35mm stereo mix is itself very good, I must recommend that anyone watching the movie with a 2-channel sound system choose that version instead, rather than downmixing the 5.1 mix.  Content-wise they are identical, and the greater midrange emphasis of its EQ makes it more suitable for the kinds of sound systems people are likely to have.

 Thanks, hairy_hen. I've recently acquired a 5.1 system and bought a new soundcard to go with it (both second hand from a friend who's quite the audiophile - he was just updating his system) and from what I can tell (we all know how much of a layman I am when it comes to audio) the 5.1 mix sounds wonderful. :-) I'm gonna have to re-watch Star Wars with the 5.1 mix one of these days.

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There are no issues that I noticed on the new 5.1 mix. Yes, the music does flange from time to time, but that was a trait of the original sources (you can hear it happening even on the mono track), and could be the result of speeding up and slowing down cues.

If anything, I was a bit shocked as to how powerful this sounded… the bass is killer (in a good way).

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I've listened to Empire 2.0 and Star Wars 2.5 several times on my 5.1 system and have no issues whatsoever.  I think it sounds superb across the board.  Thanks again to hairy_hen and Harmy for all the hard work.  These both turned out great!!

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Hairy hen, what are your thoughts on watching the 5.1 mix on a sony soundbar with subwoofer? Im not a big audiophile and don't remember the exact specs but I know it has more than two speakers in the bar and is capable of decoding the main types of surround sound (the box listed all the types it was compatible with, and it was all the common ones you see on the back of DVDs and blurays).

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It should be fine as long as it has at least five speakers built in, I'd say.  I haven't actually spent much time listening to sound bars—it's doubtful the surround sound aspect will come across as clearly as separate speakers properly positioned around the room, but it should work reasonably well.

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Apologies for creating an account just to post an issue/problem (I'm a huge fan of the Despecialized projects), but I'm encountering an odd video issue in TESB 2.0 during the Hoth battle. At 26:23 , Luke's head is translucent, revealing the outline of a snow speeder behind him.

The issue I'm experiencing can be seen in a GOUT screenshot here:

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/+DrewStewart/albums/5525747538664147553/5527192028591020882?pid=5527192028591020882&oid=102542760950977079734

Oddly, this issue does not seem to be present in the same scene in v1.0 of the film.

Anyone have any idea what's going on here? (Apologies if this issue has been discussed before--I've been keeping up casually with this thread and haven't seen it mentioned). 

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BenPMills said:

Apologies for creating an account just to post an issue/problem (I'm a huge fan of the Despecialized projects), but I'm encountering an odd video issue in TESB 2.0 during the Hoth battle. At 26:23 , Luke's head is translucent, revealing the outline of a snow speeder behind him.

The issue I'm experiencing can be seen in a GOUT screenshot here:

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/+DrewStewart/albums/5525747538664147553/5527192028591020882?pid=5527192028591020882&oid=102542760950977079734

Oddly, this issue does not seem to be present in the same scene in v1.0 of the film.

Anyone have any idea what's going on here? (Apologies if this issue has been discussed before--I've been keeping up casually with this thread and haven't seen it mentioned). 

 

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/109609428403596349302/albums/6044645069501365185/6044645264926064226?pid=6044645264926064226&oid=109609428403596349302

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It was just the way the special effect was done at the time. Because the scene takes place against a white background, the matte lines (the black lines around objects in old effects shots) would have been more visible. They got around it by making the layers more opaque. 

The entire scene was digitally recomposited in 1997 for the special edition, so no black lines, no opacity. This was used for Harmy's 1.0. 

But because Harmy is trying to make the despecialization as original as possible, he added the opacity back in with 2.0. 

Hope that makes sense!

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Interesting--didn't realize it was intentional, but that makes sense. Thanks!

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Hello. I've been lurking on the forums for a while, but now that ESB 2.0 was released I decided to register and say a big thank you to Harmy and everyone who had a hand in creating the Despecialized Editions. Thank you, everyone! All the time, effort and hard work you've put into making of those versions is greatly appreciated.

And also another thank you to Harmy for including the Czech dubs in SW and ESB (and hoping for one in RotJ) - you see, I'm Polish and "Jsem tvuj tatinek" is something of a myth in my parts. ;) But on a more serious note, might I ask which dub of the three versions mentioned on the Czech Wikipedia did you use in the DEs? I once found this clip on YouTube, which is clearly a different dub than the one in the DE, but I have no idea which one is which.

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Czech wikipedia has an article about Czech SW dubbing?

EDIT: Found it (I had no idea there even was a Czech wikipedia but I guess it makes sense that there would be). The dubbing I'm using for the DeEds is the original Guild Home Video dubbing. BTW it's pretty f*cking ridiculous that in the new Blu-Ray dubbing they used the actor who dubbed Luke in both the '92 and '97 dubs for Han Solo - I caught a bit of ESB on TV with the BD dubbing and it was horrible that whenever Han opened his mouth Luke's voice came out.

And Vader definitely never says "Jsem tvuj tatinek" (which would be the equivalent of "I'm your daddy") in any of the Czech dubs :-D

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Harmy said:The dubbing I'm using for the DeEds is the original Guild Home Video dubbing.

Thanks for the info. That would mean that the clip I linked to was from the Bonton Home Video dub, as the voices were similar sounding.


Harmy said:it was horrible that whenever Han opened his mouth Luke's voice came out

And you can't even blame Lucas for it. ;) Unless, of course, the BD dub was directed by a Jirí Lukáš - that would actually be pretty awesome. :)


Harmy said:And Vader definitely never says "Jsem tvuj tatinek" (which would be the equivalent of "I'm your daddy") in any of the Czech dubs :-D

I thought that might be the case. It's pretty much an urban legend and you know how reliable those are - somebody made a joke, somebody else misheard it and somebody else still printed it. Also it doesn't help that the Czech language is inherently amusing to us. (It doesn't work the other way round, does it?)

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It actually kind of does.

Oh, and by the way, while Vader never says "I'm your daddy" in the Czech dubbing of SW, C-3P0 does say "Nejsem Spielberg" (I'm not Spieldberg) in the first CZ dub of SW.

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Just scrubbed though it on the iMac, now playing it from the start in the cinema. The image is simply outstanding at 10 feet wide. Remarkable work!  

The audio is great.  The 5.1 track is awfully aggressive with some serious low end. My dual subs are being pushed. I'm honestly having more fun with the 2.0 1980 track in Pro Logic (not II, as my processor has both options): it feels so period accurate.  Add THX processing and you'd think it was actually 1980!  I've never heard Empire sound this good. 

I'm salivating for Jedi 2.0 now. Thanks to everyone involved!

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Congrats, Harmy!  

As of last night, "Harmy's DeSpecialized Newsletter" now has 1,005 total subscribers!

...no pressure.  :)

Subscribe to HarmyNews!

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borisanddoris said:

The audio is great.  The 5.1 track is awfully aggressive with some serious low end. My dual subs are being pushed. I'm honestly having more fun with the 2.0 1980 track in Pro Logic (not II, as my processor has both options): it feels so period accurate.  Add THX processing and you'd think it was actually 1980!  I've never heard Empire sound this good. 

 That's a serious endorsement, I really enjoyed the 5.1 but I reckon I'll have to give it another go-around with the 2.0 since it has your blessing!

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Harmy said:

It actually kind of does.

Really? It's kinda nice to hear, actually. :)

Harmy said:

C-3P0 does say "Nejsem Spielberg" (I'm not Spieldberg) in the first CZ dub of SW.

That's pretty cute - even if it makes totally no sense in-universe.

Once again, thanks for all of your awesome work!

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canofhumdingers said:

Hairy hen, what are your thoughts on watching the 5.1 mix on a sony soundbar with subwoofer? Im not a big audiophile and don't remember the exact specs but I know it has more than two speakers in the bar and is capable of decoding the main types of surround sound (the box listed all the types it was compatible with, and it was all the common ones you see on the back of DVDs and blurays).

As far as I know these bars mostly (all?) use phase trickery to simulate surround sound since all the speakers are physically in front of the listener.  The ones I've seen usually have two inputs.  A digital input (coax and/or optical) and stereo.  If it were me, I would pick the stereo soundtrack and use the stereo inputs (as a 2.1 system).

I'm definitely interested in what Hairy hen as to say specifically about the processing that goes into converting the digital inputs to this "fake" surround.  I seem to remember several recommendations in this and other threads about not folding down tracks specifically mixed for multiple (discrete) channels since this can introduce distortion and other bad things.  My prediction (untested) is that you will get a more authentic listening experience going with stereo.

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It should work at least somewhat if the bar has multiple built-in speakers.  I believe they achieve their results aiming the 'surround' outputs out at the walls in a tightly focused pattern and letting it reflect at an angle to the back of the room, such that the sound arriving at the listener's ears actually does seem to have originated from behind and not in front.  They may also use psychoacoustic trickery to further differentiate the rear channels from the front, such as tweaking the phase and EQ to more closely match the way we naturally tend to perceive sounds coming from behind or to the side of us.

I haven't spent enough time listening to soundbars to comment on how effective they are, nor do I know enough about the underlying technology to give a more detailed explanation.  But my gut reaction is that a bar with at least five built-in speakers should do a reasonably good job of approximating what the track should sound like, provided it is used in a small room so that the reflectivity effect can be properly employed.  If it has a lesser number of speakers, then it is downmixing and this is definitely to be avoided, especially if it then employs some kind of reverb or delay processing to create a fake surround out of it.  Given the way I made the 5.1, I'm pretty sure this would sound bad.

But in any case, it's absolutely worthwhile to hook up a subwoofer, because the bass does add a lot to the film experience.  It's probably more bass than the original 70mm track of ESB actually had, but I kept it as strong as I did because the SE bass just plain sounded good.  I spent a lot of time balancing it into the 1993 mix and making sure it felt like it belonged there, and didn't stick out as some kind of unnecessary hamfisted addition.  Every single instance of bass has been edited in some way, some of them quite extensively; and some of them I created myself to fill in gaps where the SE ought to have had bass but didn't.  There are probably more things I could do to improve it even further, and I have some ideas on a possible alternate version that wouldn't use the SE mix as a source at all; but for now I'm very happy with it.  I'm glad to hear others are enjoying it, too.

As has been said, the 35mm stereo mix sounds very good, so if you don't have a 5.1 system, or want to be as strictly authentic as is currently possible, you still have an excellent soundtrack to listen to.  It it sourced primarily from the 1989 SWE laserdisc release, with various defects cleaned up and the dialog level matched to the 1993 version.  It is a considerably more robust track than the stereo mix of the first film, with greater dynamics and a stronger EQ—I chose the SWE version because it was the most powerful rendition of this mix found in Schorman13's laserdisc audio archive, and also because the quality of analog-to-digital conversion was improved over the earlier digital releases.  Unfortunately, it was also more noisy and had more errors (dropouts, clicks, etc), but I was able to eliminate the most obvious instances.  (It's possible there may be some I haven't noticed, but if so I'll fix them at a later date.)  I do like the 5.1 track a great deal—aside from the lack of true discrete channels, it's exactly how I would make the film sound if I were in charge of mastering it for an official home video release—but I can also watch the movie with the stereo mix and enjoy it just as much.

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Harmy said:

And Vader definitely never says "Jsem tvuj tatinek" (which would be the equivalent of "I'm your daddy") in any of the Czech dubs :-D

It's "Ja sem twoj otec", but close enough. :D

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Huh? In Czech it definitely isn't - it's "Já jsem tvuj otec" with a little circle above the U in tvuj :-)