4K restoration on Star Wars — Page 23

hairy_hen said:

Given that anything they put out will make lots of money simply by having the name 'Star Wars' on it, regardless of whether or not it's any good, the likelihood of them bothering becomes vanishingly small.

But what do they have left to sell? Another SE? Everyone who was ever gonna buy any version of the SE has that already. The unaltereds' absence from the 2011 blu-ray did not go unnoticed or uncriticized, not by the media and not by the fans. The SE is probably the most notorious and well-known alternate version of a movie, ever. To a pretty big chunk of the audience, the ones above a certain age anyway, there's the true OOT and then there's the SE.

Fang Zei said:

To a pretty big chunk of the audience, the ones above a certain age anyway, there's the true OOT and then there's the SE.

 I think there's also a lot of people who have never seen the OOT who would love to watch it. Star Wars fans are pretty notorious for buying the same movies over and over again, and if LFL released the OOT then there'd actually be a reason to re-buy. Someone who says that there's no market for the OOT just doesn't want to get their hopes up (which I can understand after all these years). Also, whenever George said it was going to cost too much or it would be too difficult, he was just lying because he was tired of people being angry at the SE. I'd go so far as to say that a proper restoration and well advertised release of the OUT could be one of the best-selling Star Wars home video releases ever

Another thing to consider is that the movies have yet to be released individually on blu-ray.

I don't George Lucas has to worry about anything being too expensive.

Beatleboy99 said:

I don't George Lucas has to worry about anything being too expensive.

 Of course not, and neither does Disney

Simple matter of their teams modelling up which projects have the greatest potential to drive immediate revenue, while expanding their market size and stickiness of that market.

Their teams MAY determine that the OUT has potential to bring back a lapsed 30-50 year old fan segment (which they'll size), plus add a younger, curious section to their existing base.

They may determine the benefit of the above not worth the added cost of the project (OUT restoration, speed to market, etc).

They may determine that an OUT releases increases customer stickiness and goodwill and will therefore add x% to the Ep 7 and beyond revenue.

But then they might model the effect as negligible and not even worth a PR bounce.

Either way I bet their teams have modelled it - which is exactly what the teams at Lucasfilm will have wanted to do prior to the sale.

The political reason why that didn't happen has gone.

Tobar said:

Heck, the idea of an Imperial Inquisitor first originated in the WEG RPG source books. The books that provided the backbone of the EU itself.

Of course, the Inquisitors of the EU are far more interesting -- not to mention better designed -- than this boring corduroy-faced, third-rate Count Orlok-knockoff.

But I digress ... 

hairy_hen said: they don't have to bother to do anything at all to make a profit at this point.  The work has already been done, from their point of view.  Clearly, alienating a percentage of longtime fans isn't something they're concerned about,

 Your post is incorrect and based off inaccurate assumptions about revenue and profit projections.

What GlastoEls posted is much more inline with what Disney will be considering. Questions like, "would a particular release expand the existing market and would it potentially increase/drive Ep7 revenue higher?"  

Your post about, "bother to do anything at all to make a profit" is again inaccurate and a rather naive assumption about how the business works. Yes, it is Star Wars and yes it is likely to generate a profit, but Disney will still carry out the necessary market research, profit/revenue projections/marketing strategy etc. Disney will be thinking of making money off its 4 billion dollar investment both long term and short term. They will not sit in their offices and think, "gee, it's star wars, release any old shite and we're guaranteed profits!"

Disney need to create, foster and maintain a certain brand quality and image in order to make profit years from now. Ep7 is merely the start to drive their Star Wars business, and the most ideal way to start is to create goodwill and trust with the existing and lapsed fanbase before driving it further with the sequels to sell merchandise.

Their starting strategy is pretty clear (discount any EU stuff to show that they're series about Star Wars as a movie series). Shoot using film, practicals, sets, models etc (Disney have purposely been showing this side of their direction. They've kept the use CGI very low key, even though the film will use plenty of CGI). This isn't out of heart felt concern for fanboys, but the beginning of their marketing and hype strategy.

If an original trilogy release would help their overall business to sell the Star Wars brand, Disney will do it.

That's exactly what I said: they'll do it if they think there's money in it.  My concern is that they will deem it as having a negligible impact on their profits, and therefore not worth bothering with.

Does anyone really think that ticket sales for the new movies will be affected in any way by whether the original versions are available in stores?  Or that the amount of toys sold will be influenced by this?  Children buying toys today do not know or care whether Han shot first or not.  It makes no difference to them; therefore it makes no difference to Disney.  An official release could happen, but it would take a lot of persuading by people on the inside who have sufficient clout and can make a convincing case for it.  They're not going to do it on their own, because that's not the reason they bought the Star Wars brand.

@supersonic, I hope that's true, the cost of a simple blu-ray is so negligible, especially weighed against the bad press of changes getting booed at every single public screening they've ever had in the last several years, including Star Wars conventions where the audience is as friendly as they're gonna get. Plus it'll probably come up again that the director of Episode 8 has bad mouthed the special editions. Meanwhile, Disney thoroughly cleaned up THE BLACK HOLE over 2 years ago and hasn't even bothered to put out a blu-ray ( TV showings only) so they clearly aren't sweating the cost of color correcting and dirt cleaning films in their catalog.

hairy_hen said:

That's exactly what I said: they'll do it if they think there's money in it.  My concern is that they will deem it as having a negligible impact on their profits, and therefore not worth bothering with.

Does anyone really think that ticket sales for the new movies will be affected in any way by whether the original versions are available in stores?  Or that the amount of toys sold will be influenced by this?  Children buying toys today do not know or care whether Han shot first or not.  It makes no difference to them; therefore it makes no difference to Disney.  An official release could happen, but it would take a lot of persuading by people on the inside who have sufficient clout and can make a convincing case for it.  They're not going to do it on their own, because that's not the reason they bought the Star Wars brand.

 I agree to the extent of the negligible profits in a short term sense BUT the release of the OT could be both a theatrical re-release in 4K of the original films for the first time ever, followed by a blu-ray release which would also have an exclusive featurette/early look at Episode 7. The OT release would be (a small but important) part of the overall marketing strategy for Episode 7.

The short term profits may be negligible but consider it from a long term perspective: brand quality and assurance is confirmed to the now parents who will pay for the childs ticket to Ep7. Additionally faith in the films is restored to the lapsed fan base and to a potential new audience (further garnered by positive press and a marketing campaign) AND finally the films would finally be restored for future re-releases (i.e. your easy profit point, for example, buy the special comic con collector's 4K UHD boxset of Episode 1-9 now with talking yoda head etc).

They bought the Star Wars brand to make money for the all forseeable future. Episode 7 is a small step in their overall plans, which are ultimately to sell and license merchandise which will, make no mistake, occur with Eps 8 & 9 as well disguised 2hour adverts for kids toys.

There will also be a new generation of kids who, yes won't care who shot first, but likely haven't seen the OT and would be taken to theoretical screenings of the OT by their parents (who want to see the OT). The parents see what they've always wanted, the kids love it and want the toys. The prior home video mess of releases is also reset for Disney.

hairy_hen said:

That's exactly what I said: they'll do it if they think there's money in it.  My concern is that they will deem it as having a negligible impact on their profits, and therefore not worth bothering with.

Does anyone really think that ticket sales for the new movies will be affected in any way by whether the original versions are available in stores?  Or that the amount of toys sold will be influenced by this?  Children buying toys today do not know or care whether Han shot first or not.  It makes no difference to them; therefore it makes no difference to Disney.  An official release could happen, but it would take a lot of persuading by people on the inside who have sufficient clout and can make a convincing case for it.  They're not going to do it on their own, because that's not the reason they bought the Star Wars brand.

 Releasing the originals will get a large number of people REALLY hyped and put in a "Star Wars mood."  It'll reignite the flame, so to speak.  It would with me.

Tobar said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Tobar said:

Heck, the idea of an Imperial Inquisitor first originated in the WEG RPG source books. The books that provided the backbone of the EU itself.

Of course, the Inquisitors of the EU are far more interesting -- not to mention better designed -- than this boring corduroy-faced, third-rate Count Orlok-knockoff.

But I digress ... 

 Well that's a textbook case of judging a book by its cover if I've ever seen one.

He's a Pau'an as introduced in ROTS. They all look like that and that look was undoubtedly the reason why they chose that species for the character.

Yes, I know he's a Pau'an and that his race wasn't created for the show -- I still don't like his design (I don't think I need to go into detail on why.).

BUT, that doesn't say anything about how the character will actually be depicted. You nor I or anyone else not involved with the production really know anything about the character yet.

True, he may turn out to be an excellent character. If so, then perhaps I'll be able to forgive his horribly lame, unoriginal design -- at least in part.

He just might actually end up being like the Inquisitors as depicted in the EU. That's entirely a possibility. Heck, in the video where they talk about the character it's mentioned that he's not a Sith but that he does tap into the Darkside.

I'm sure he'll serve the same purpose as the EU Inquistors. However, he still won't dress as well as they do.

moviefreakedmind said:

Something I think we can all agree will happen for certain, is that Disney WILL re-release the OT (whether unaltered or SE) in the lead up to episode VII. Even if they don't release them again before EVII they will definitely release them on home video eventually (the fox distribution rights are nothing new), and when that happens they want their new release to sell well, and including the OUT will do that. It's not a big investment from what I've heard to restore the OUT, so there's no way they'll lose money on it, or even make significantly less, plus it gives them an excuse to sell the Trilogy again. Every release of SW since the first DVD release has been criticized for not including the OUT, so I really can't see Disney just ignoring the OUT and pretending it doesn't exist. Also, there is a definite market out there for it, just look at how excited people on the internet got when the bleeding cool rumor surfaced a couple months back. Just because not everyone complains about the SE's all the time doesn't mean they don't want the OOT again. Remember, if they do release the SE's again without including the OUT they'll have to give an answer as to why not, and they really don't have an answer since there's no artistic reason for holding the original films back. That's just my take on the whole thing.

EDIT: Also, there was enough demand that even George allowed the release of the GOUT (as pathetic as it was), and if George of all people will allow a release of the OUT, then Disney sure as hell will

 I agree 100%, Disney will continue to release the Original Trilogy, and the best way to get people to re-buy the films is to include extra things not available on previous releases, and what's the biggest feature we haven't gotten yet? The original movies! I seem to remember Michael Kaminski (Secret History of Star Wars) saying that restoring the entire unaltered trilogy shouldn't cost more than a million dollars, and that's a very small fraction of potential sales. 

gizzy2000 said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Something I think we can all agree will happen for certain, is that Disney WILL re-release the OT (whether unaltered or SE) in the lead up to episode VII. Even if they don't release them again before EVII they will definitely release them on home video eventually (the fox distribution rights are nothing new), and when that happens they want their new release to sell well, and including the OUT will do that. It's not a big investment from what I've heard to restore the OUT, so there's no way they'll lose money on it, or even make significantly less, plus it gives them an excuse to sell the Trilogy again. Every release of SW since the first DVD release has been criticized for not including the OUT, so I really can't see Disney just ignoring the OUT and pretending it doesn't exist. Also, there is a definite market out there for it, just look at how excited people on the internet got when the bleeding cool rumor surfaced a couple months back. Just because not everyone complains about the SE's all the time doesn't mean they don't want the OOT again. Remember, if they do release the SE's again without including the OUT they'll have to give an answer as to why not, and they really don't have an answer since there's no artistic reason for holding the original films back. That's just my take on the whole thing.

EDIT: Also, there was enough demand that even George allowed the release of the GOUT (as pathetic as it was), and if George of all people will allow a release of the OUT, then Disney sure as hell will

 I agree 100%, Disney will continue to release the Original Trilogy, and the best way to get people to re-buy the films is to include extra things not available on previous releases, and what's the biggest feature we haven't gotten yet? The original movies! I seem to remember Michael Kaminski (Secret History of Star Wars) saying that restoring the entire unaltered trilogy shouldn't cost more than a million dollars, and that's a very small fraction of potential sales. 

 I hope you're right

(I'm new to this site by the way)

Harmy said:

Well, all they need as a selling point for the next release is what they already have in the restoration that is the topic of this thread - Star Wars Trilogy Mastered in 4K - I recently re-bought Spider Man on BD, because Sony's Mastered in 4K version is far superior, and if I already had Men in Black, I'd re-buy those in the Mastered in 4K edition as well (check out the links to see why) and many people did so and so they will for Star Wars, especially if they make a point about the colors being fixed as well, since that is a well known issue among even the SE fans and they may not care so much but I'm sure they'd still jump at the opportunity to buy it with fixxed collars.

 Would that be as popular of a gimmick as an OOT blu ray release? I mean, you can fix the colors in the SE but I just don't think that's enough to justify a re-release. I mean, you have to advertise a re-release and give people a reason to buy what they already own, and I just don't see them saying, "the colors are much better than the first time," maybe they would but I just don't see it. I'd take an OOT release with bad colors than an SE with perfect colors, and I doubt i'm the only one. As for the 4K scan, I'm no expert on the subject, and I'm not going to pretend to know what they have planned for that now that 3D has been canceled, or postponed indefinitely. Could they use it for an OUT release, or is that out of the question?

Harmy said:

gizzy2000 said:

Harmy said:

Well, all they need as a selling point for the next release is what they already have in the restoration that is the topic of this thread - Star Wars Trilogy Mastered in 4K - I recently re-bought Spider Man on BD, because Sony's Mastered in 4K version is far superior, and if I already had Men in Black, I'd re-buy those in the Mastered in 4K edition as well (check out the links to see why) and many people did so and so they will for Star Wars, especially if they make a point about the colors being fixed as well, since that is a well known issue among even the SE fans and they may not care so much but I'm sure they'd still jump at the opportunity to buy it with fixxed collars.

 Would that be as popular of a gimmick as an OOT blu ray release? I mean, you can fix the colors in the SE but I just don't think that's enough to justify a re-release. I mean, you have to advertise a re-release and give people a reason to buy what they already own, and I just don't see them saying, "the colors are much better than the first time," maybe they would but I just don't see it. I'd take an OOT release with bad colors than an SE with perfect colors, and I doubt i'm the only one. As for the 4K scan, I'm no expert on the subject, and I'm not going to pretend to know what they have planned for that now that 3D has been canceled, or postponed indefinitely. Could they use it for an OUT release, or is that out of the question?

 Well, like I said, it was popular enough of a gimmick for Spider Man, Men In Black, Ghostbusters and many others. Really check out those links to see the difference that a new 4K master can make to a movie - and considering the shoddiness of the current Star Wars BD master, I'm sure the 4K re-master would make at least as much of a difference it does for Spider Man, if not as much as Men In Black. And I'm not saying Disne, won't release the OOT, but it may not be needed as aselling point for the nearest release. In fact, it would make financial sense for them to release this new re-master of the SE first and then make us tripple dipp with the OOT a couple of years later.

That is true, and the new MIB and Spidey blu rays do look great, but I think releasing the OOT is important before Episode VII in order to show everyone that they aren't George Lucas. I just think that people were getting to a point where they were willing to put up with George not giving us the OOT because he was so weird and crazy (I do think he may have released it eventually but that's besides the point now), but I doubt people will be as forgiving with Disney because they truly have no reason not to make it available. As for a 4K scan being a selling point, it works with MIB and Spiderman because it's an upgrade to the movie. A 4K release of just the SE would be an upgrade to a sub-par version of the movie. I don't know that a higher quality SE release is as big of a selling point for people as a release of the OOT would be. I just think it'd be a poor move for Disney to release the SE without the real versions for the next release because they'll come off as total assholes, and they really need to regain the consumers' trust and let them know they aren't going to be as insulting as George was when it comes to Star Wars

Even if they marketed it as "mastered in 4k" it would still be just another SE and, more importantly, still a regular blu-ray.

Remember, Blade Runner's final cut was mastered in 4k and you didn't see that anywhere on the packaging.

The only thing I could see this new transfer selling on home video would be a 3D blu but again, who cares? There's an extremely small market for that.

No, they need to restore the OOT if they want a selling point for another blu-ray release.