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Star Wars: Episode VII to be directed by J.J. Abrams **NON SPOILER THREAD** — Page 142

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DominicCobb said:

Tobar said:

But he certainly fixed them when it came time to actually make the movie. Look at anything else Kurtzman and Orci have written: total shit movies. But the Abrams Trek films are for sure awesome fun times. One thing's certain: Abrams can direct an action film.

All of the plot holes and utter dreck that were in the scripts survive in those films. Abrams personal flair is all that saves them from collapsing in on themselves.

That's my point. Even if the script is bad at least Abrams will make the movie good.

I don't know where you get that from. Super 8 had a terrible finale (in terms of the script), and that's when a decent movie got crap. STID had an abysmal script and it was easily one of the worst action flicks in recent memory. It does indeed collapse in on itself. Arguably as early on as in the opening scene, and it gets worse after that. MI3 was utterly forgettable. Etc.

The conclusion I reached watching his movies is that if a script is/gets truly terrible, he can't save anything. ST 09 works somewhat, because that movie barely even has a script and it certainly isn't concerned about it.

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Star Wars Episode VII - A Galaxy in Crisis

The heavy taxation on numerous systems, as wanted by the evil Princess Leia in order to buy new ships for the now old and rusty army of the republic, faces many oppositions in the galaxy....

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TMBTM said:

Star Wars Episode VII - A Galaxy in Crisis

The heavy taxation on numerous systems, as wanted by the evil Princess Leia in order to buy new ships for the now old and rusty army of the republic, faces many oppositions in the galaxy....

In all seriousness, I don't think that a galactic government should exist when VII begins.

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I hope this will not be as weird as Cowboys And Aliens. Even though I mentioned it was an ok movie it is not really Star Wars. Although I would like to see a cameo appearance from Matt Smith. 

What’s worse George Lucas changing the OT or selling the rights to Disney

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cain spaans said:


I hope this will not be as weird as Cowboys And Aliens. Even though I mentioned it was an ok movie it is not really Star Wars. Although I would like to see a cameo appearance from Matt Smith. 
Yes?

Star Wars Revisited Wordpress

Star Wars Visual Comparisons WordPress

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bkev said:


Hijacking Tobar's JJ post from the Trek thread over in off-topic because I feel it's relevant here.  Allow me to direct you to the original theatrical trailer for Star Wars.  Pay close attention to a particular quote from the narrator: "The story of a boy, a girl, and a universe."  Sounds pretty simplistic, right?  There's not much depth to the trailer... and, ultimately, I feel the same way about the film itself.  At its core, Star Wars 77 really is a movie of style over substance.  It's the movie George Lucas made because he couldn't get the rights to Flash Gordon.  It gives you everything you want from a blockbuster film - easy to follow plot, endearing characters played by actors with chemistry, etc. - but goes above and beyond due to (well, I personally attribute much of the success to these factors) the editing and iconic musical themes throughout.  I must admit, in my time here, Anchorhead's love of '77 rubbed off on me.

While I said it gives its audience what it wants, that doesn't necessarily mean it entirely lacks what they need.  Star Wars manages to balance the two well enough that the movie never feels like it's missing something.  The two main protagonists*, Han and Luke, have character arcs.  They develop.  Han has a change of heart, and Luke is suddenly thrust into adulthood and responsibility following the death of Ben Kenobi.  In that sense, it satisfies both needs and wants - you feel like there was a greater purpose to the story than the action, even if that's what your attention focuses on.

I personally believe Empire has the stronger story given that everyone, including Leia, develops in that film.  But Star Wars '77 has more style.  To me, it's a pretty damn good standalone film - I don't know if I could say that about Empire.  By the time I saw Empire I had already grown attached to Luke & Company.  Without that bond, I don't know if I would have cared about the characters as much.  Because I knew where they started, the development felt more organic. Also, I'm not sure if it balances needs vs wants as well as Star Wars itself.

What does this have to do with JJ?  I return to my point on style.  The man certainly has some, even if you don't care for the other aesthetics of his films/media projects that come with his role as an auteur.  I trust him to make a simple, fun movie that satisfies both my needs and wants as a filmgoer.  So far, he's managed to (particularly with Super 8) -- although note that I haven't seen Into Darkness, and that I never had much fondness for the original Trek (I started on TNG.)

To close this mouthful of a post, I'll talk about what happens when substance takes over style: the prequels. Trade disputes? False flag terrorism? On their own, fine - even interesting, particularly the latter - concepts. Just not in the Star Wars universe. It bogs down the moments where style succeeds in the prequels, like the establishing shots of Theed. Ultimately, there needs to be a balance between the two that can't just center around having both as in-your-face as possible. That's what the prequels did, and failed. I think Abrams can manage balancing these two factors, at the very least, better than Lucas... and that's me downplaying my affinity for him as an auteur.

Excellent points, many of which occasionally get lost in the noise this franchise has become.  Along with a myriad of other inabilities and demons Lucas was tangling with, he never understood what made Star Wars77 connect with the audience.  Like you pointed out, it was the simplicity.  It was fun.  It was an escape.  It wasn't a government\economics course.

Even in 1977 he had to be guided by Marcia and Gary (among others).  He just didn't get it.  Once he became the sole decision maker, the franchise was doomed.  The decision to eliminate any checks and balances was a terrible idea.  One that gave us (arguably) four bad films. 

I too trust Abrams to understand what made 1977 work.  If we've seen anything so far, it's that he's a fan of the 1977 universe. 

Again, excellent post bkev.

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Anchorhead said:

Excellent points, many of which occasionally get lost in the noise this franchise has become.  Along with a myriad of other inabilities and demons Lucas was tangling with, he never understood what made Star Wars77 connect with the audience.  Like you pointed out, it was the simplicity.  It was fun.  It was an escape.  It wasn't a government\economics course.

I too trust Abrams to understand what made 1977 work.  If we've seen anything so far, it's that he's a fan of the 1977 universe. 

I think the inclusion of Harrison Ford in Episode 7 is a HUGE deal to getting SW back to the movies that were fun to watch.

SW at heart is a simple story, yet there is alot going in the movie.  There is drama, there is comedy, there is mythology, there is action, and it all equals a fun ride if you balance those elements.  SW doesn't work when it tries to be TOO serious, TOO comedic, or TOO much action. 

If you watch SW & Empire, Han & Luke pretty much have equal screentime, and those characters give it the right balance.  Han gives the movie good comedic moments (That the average person can relate to), while Luke give the movie its dramatic moments (Where we aspire to be a pilot, jedi, etc in a galaxy far far away).  ROTJ started that trend where the movies tried to be too dramatic, as Luke got much more screentime then Han.  The Prequels were lacking that Han Solo character altogether, and the whole trilogy just lacked any sense of good comedic relief or fun in that respect.

With JJ supposedly giving Han a 'huge' role in Episode 7 (barring the injury), he is essentially saying that the new SW movies need more of those light (every guy) moments  to equal out the darker (Jedi) moments. 

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If Episode VII is good, it will be the very first time JJ Abrams will be involved in something I can stomach.

Original, Special Edition, and Prequel trilogy gusher. Not a fan of any Disney era Star Wars.

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Anchorhead said:

bkev said:


Hijacking Tobar's JJ post from the Trek thread over in off-topic because I feel it's relevant here.  Allow me to direct you to the original theatrical trailer for Star Wars.  Pay close attention to a particular quote from the narrator: "The story of a boy, a girl, and a universe."  Sounds pretty simplistic, right?  There's not much depth to the trailer... and, ultimately, I feel the same way about the film itself.  At its core, Star Wars 77 really is a movie of style over substance.  It's the movie George Lucas made because he couldn't get the rights to Flash Gordon.  It gives you everything you want from a blockbuster film - easy to follow plot, endearing characters played by actors with chemistry, etc. - but goes above and beyond due to (well, I personally attribute much of the success to these factors) the editing and iconic musical themes throughout.  I must admit, in my time here, Anchorhead's love of '77 rubbed off on me.

While I said it gives its audience what it wants, that doesn't necessarily mean it entirely lacks what they need.  Star Wars manages to balance the two well enough that the movie never feels like it's missing something.  The two main protagonists*, Han and Luke, have character arcs.  They develop.  Han has a change of heart, and Luke is suddenly thrust into adulthood and responsibility following the death of Ben Kenobi.  In that sense, it satisfies both needs and wants - you feel like there was a greater purpose to the story than the action, even if that's what your attention focuses on.

I personally believe Empire has the stronger story given that everyone, including Leia, develops in that film.  But Star Wars '77 has more style.  To me, it's a pretty damn good standalone film - I don't know if I could say that about Empire.  By the time I saw Empire I had already grown attached to Luke & Company.  Without that bond, I don't know if I would have cared about the characters as much.  Because I knew where they started, the development felt more organic. Also, I'm not sure if it balances needs vs wants as well as Star Wars itself.

What does this have to do with JJ?  I return to my point on style.  The man certainly has some, even if you don't care for the other aesthetics of his films/media projects that come with his role as an auteur.  I trust him to make a simple, fun movie that satisfies both my needs and wants as a filmgoer.  So far, he's managed to (particularly with Super 8) -- although note that I haven't seen Into Darkness, and that I never had much fondness for the original Trek (I started on TNG.)

To close this mouthful of a post, I'll talk about what happens when substance takes over style: the prequels. Trade disputes? False flag terrorism? On their own, fine - even interesting, particularly the latter - concepts. Just not in the Star Wars universe. It bogs down the moments where style succeeds in the prequels, like the establishing shots of Theed. Ultimately, there needs to be a balance between the two that can't just center around having both as in-your-face as possible. That's what the prequels did, and failed. I think Abrams can manage balancing these two factors, at the very least, better than Lucas... and that's me downplaying my affinity for him as an auteur.

Excellent points, many of which occasionally get lost in the noise this franchise has become.  Along with a myriad of other inabilities and demons Lucas was tangling with, he never understood what made Star Wars77 connect with the audience.  Like you pointed out, it was the simplicity.  It was fun.  It was an escape.  It wasn't a government\economics course.

Even in 1977 he had to be guided by Marcia and Gary (among others).  He just didn't get it.  Once he became the sole decision maker, the franchise was doomed.  The decision to eliminate any checks and balances was a terrible idea.  One that gave us (arguably) four bad films. 

I too trust Abrams to understand what made 1977 work.  If we've seen anything so far, it's that he's a fan of the 1977 universe. 

Again, excellent post bkev.

 Wow.  Great points both of you.

I just wanted to add that when you look at what Abrams did with Star Trek, it should give us all hope.

Roddenbury's Star Trek was a universe that dealt with serious socio-political themes while Star Wars dealt with personal themes....family, friends, and growing up.

Whether Lucas intended it or not I'm sure his own experiences made their way into the plot.  Being unsure of oneself and having to choose between the life you know and the life you dream of.  That was Luke's journey in Star Wars '77.

As for JJ's interpretation of Star Trek, you can clearly see an emphasis on friendship and family.  You can also see the comic relief.  

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"I just wanted to add that when you look at what Abrams did with Star Trek, it should give us all hope."

It doesn't give me hope at all. I love the prequels, liked Star Trek movies until Abrams, despised Abrams' Star Trek movies, dislike all of Abrams' other directed movies, hated his Lost pilot, and Cloverfield, Regarding Henry, Felicity, Alias. And I didn't even really pay attention to the fact that all this stuff was done by the same man until Star Trek, which was just amazing. "So this is the man responsible for all this," I thought. Then, the cherry on the top, well three cherries, were his "mystery box" Ted speech, his awful, awful Spielberg homage, Super 8, and finally,  Morning Glory... Perhaps the most rancid piece of that insipid genre of "workplace...comedy?"... ever to light up my living room. The only thing worse than giving Star Wars to Abrams would be if I couldn't find it absolutely hilarious, which I do.

Original, Special Edition, and Prequel trilogy gusher. Not a fan of any Disney era Star Wars.

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ObiWanKennerobi said:

I love the prequels

That's all I needed to know...

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"Along with a myriad of other inabilities and demons Lucas was tangling with, he never understood what made Star Wars77 connect with the audience.  Like you pointed out, it was the simplicity.  It was fun.  It was an escape.  It wasn't a government\economics course."

He understood that, he just didn't want to make the rest of the story simple fun. Defeating the Empire and rescuing princesses is more simple fun than the rise of an Empire and someone falling into evil. In reality, 4-6 are not just simple fun either when taken in broader context. He's on record that he knew the prequels would not be as populist as 4-6. It's not always about fun escapism and populism. This is the guy that brought us THX1138. He wants to warn individuals about society, not cater to society. He can't just pump out fun movies and do nothing else with Star Wars. The sequels weren't supposed to be as fun either.

"If the first trilogy is social and political and talks about how society evolves," Lucas says, "Star Wars is more about personal growth and self-realisation, and the third deal with moral and philosophical problems. In Star Wars, there is a very clear line drawn between good and evil. Eventually you have to face the fact that good and evil aren't that clear-cut and the real issue is trying to understand the difference. The sequel is about Jedi knighthood, justice, confrontation, and passing on what you have learned."


And let's face it, if Star Wars 1977 had special effects like Logan's Run, it would not have been a smash hit. The special effects sold it to the masses. Spectacle. Circus. Attractions. The special effects were a breakthrough sensation. That's why everyone went to see it. In 1983, it was fans of the story and also regular folks there to see the kind of spectacle only Lucas could bring at that time. Nothing else came close.

Original, Special Edition, and Prequel trilogy gusher. Not a fan of any Disney era Star Wars.

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^That'd all be fine if the writing didn't suck. 

ObiWanKennerobi, I think you're on the wrong site. 

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Hates Abrams -- which is a respectable opinion -- but loves the PT, which is worse than all the worst Abrams has to offer packed into an atom bomb made of shit?

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ObiWanKennerobi said:

He's on record that he...

 With regard to anything Lucas says about Star Wars77, I'll read or listen only to what he said around 1977.  After that, his quotes and stories are completely meaningless.  He started to revise history as far back as the early 1980s.

It's impossible to track the number of times his versions of Star Wars history have changed and continue to change.  As I've said before, whenever an interviewer asks him questions, he should just answer by burping the alphabet.  His responses are that meaningless.

-or-

To paraphrase Apocalypse Now;  The bullshit piles up so fast with Lucas, you need wings to stay above it.

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Apparently, forums are only for people who agree. No better than TFN. Enjoy your anti-prequel, anti-Lucas echo chamber. Bye. (Thanks to those who appreciate diversity, but you're too few to make this a party.)

Original, Special Edition, and Prequel trilogy gusher. Not a fan of any Disney era Star Wars.

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timdiggerm said:

DominicCobb said:

ObiWanKennerobi, I think you're on the wrong site. 

 Because a discussion forum is only for people who agree?

I merely meant he'd be better suited discussing Wars on TFN. I was not aware at the time that he used to do so there. 

ObiWanKennerobi, I was not trying to make you feel unwelcome, I simply mean that you will not find many (any?) here that will agree with your line of thinking, at least to your extent.

To clarify my own opinions, I actually do love the PT and Lucas, but I can admit to their many faults.

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Can't go to TFN. Mods have bias against you if you don't like Abrams/Disney. The prequels to me are no more faulted than the OT, and I don't really consider things faults, like hyperspace issues, etc. So, I don't really play the "prequels are worse" game. I don't care if people agree with me as long as the torches don't come out.

Original, Special Edition, and Prequel trilogy gusher. Not a fan of any Disney era Star Wars.

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DominicCobb said:

timdiggerm said:

DominicCobb said:

ObiWanKennerobi, I think you're on the wrong site. 

 Because a discussion forum is only for people who agree?

I merely meant he'd be better suited discussing Wars on TFN. I was not aware at the time that he used to do so there. 

ObiWanKennerobi, I was not trying to make you feel unwelcome, I simply mean that you will not find many (any?) here that will agree with your line of thinking, at least to your extent.

To clarify my own opinions, I actually do love the PT and Lucas, but I can admit to their many faults.

 Oh, come on, you've successfully banished the troll, and now you're summoning him back?

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That's what I mean by torches. We must agree with you or it must be "trolling." But yes, I do get that distinct feeling you get when you wandered into the wrong bar. Should have known better.

Original, Special Edition, and Prequel trilogy gusher. Not a fan of any Disney era Star Wars.

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You forgot pitchforks too!


If I went to TFN and started telling everyone that Lucas is a nearly-talentless hack, it would definitely be trolling, regardless of whether it is just my personal opinion (which it is) or not.

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ObiWanKennerobi said:

That's what I mean by torches. We must agree with you or it must be "trolling." But yes, I do get that distinct feeling you get when you wandered into the wrong bar. Should have known better.

I've never hung about on TFN, because from what I hear...

...where banning and locking of threads is the norm if you don't tow the party line. Not here, you just get disagreed with and/or ribbed, if you can't handle that then don't offer your opinion dude.

VIZ TOP TIPS! - PARENTS. Impress your children by showing them a floppy disk and telling them it’s a 3D model of a save icon.

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ObiWanKennerobi said:

Can't go to TFN. Mods have bias against you if you don't like Abrams/Disney. The prequels to me are no more faulted than the OT, and I don't really consider things faults, like hyperspace issues, etc. So, I don't really play the "prequels are worse" game. I don't care if people agree with me as long as the torches don't come out.

 I love all six Star Wars films with passion, but in my opinion, Jar Jar Binks and midi-chlorians are major faults. Jar Jar just because he was portrayed too much like a cartoon and was extremely distracting, and midi-chlorians because they actually take away from the mystery of the Force. And that hurts the Saga overall. I know there are people that don't agree with me, but I feel these two things are the worst things about the PT.

I am what all Jedi fear to become, and what all Sith wish to be. A GOD!

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ObiWanKennerobi said:

The prequels to me are no more faulted than the OT, and I don't really consider things faults, like hyperspace issues, etc. So, I don't really play the "prequels are worse" game.

 It's no game, son.