Don't worry, I didn't - it shall be kept :-)
But it wasn't there in the original?! ;-)Harmy said:
Don't worry, I didn't - it shall be kept :-)
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OK, so I was thinking - since I have already pushed this far beyond my original plans for ESB v2.0 and after this version is released, I don't really see myself doing another version until I have 35mm sources for everything and since the way I have it planed, the version of Star Wars, which would use only 35mm sources would be v3.0, wouldn't it be better for the congruence of the versions to name the final release of this one v2.5 - or perhaps v2.1, since I fully expect some bugs to be discovered after the release, so I could reserve v2.5 for fixing those?
If I decided to do that, I would probably release v2.1 as just AVCHD with just the basic mixes found on v1.0, plus the commentaries. This would then be perfectly congruent with v2.1 of SW (an AVCHD only release with much better picture than v1.0 and better colors and on top of that some 35mm shots, where they were most needed and better despecialization all around). This would mean that ESB v2.1 could probably be out sometime next week and it would give me some time to gather all the resources for v2.5's audio and subtitles and make that the ultimate, fully featured release.
What do you guys think?
I think that's an excellent plan. So 2.5 would be the big MKV?
Yes.
Sounds like a good plan. Looking forward to it.
I dunno. 2.0 is simple and suggests big improvement over 1.0. It's not that important, but there was 2.0 release of SW, right?
This next version will be the best available ESB for quite a while. People from OT.com like to burn discs with their movies, but that's not really a trend anywhere else. A random guy who downloads this stuff off tehparadox would prefer MKV because of its simplicity and easy to use subtitles. Plus, additional bitrate probably wouldn't hurt.
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Well, actually, the v2.1 version would be the best version for a relatively short time (probably like a month or two at most) before v2.5 would come out and that would be the MKV. The thing is that yes, there was a v2.0 of SW and that was the best version for almost a year but this version of ESB is much closer to what v2.1 of SW was.
Sounds good to me. And I'm sure a lot of people on the newsletter would be excited about it.
Want me to send out a short blast for everyone to come vote on it? :)
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Verboten said:
I'll try this again.
Nope, you still failed to resize the image so we could see it properly. And it's so easy to do...
Harmy, that last image looks really distorted.
Maybe if you rounded the corners on it you might make it look a little better?
The matte boxes around the AT-AT's I noticed were around 30:44:10
I personally don't care if you call it 8.0, but there's always such newbie confusion about version numbering, especially when the version numbers don't match between films.
If 2.5 is the last of the 2.x Star Wars series, then I'd say aim for 2.5 being the end of the 2.x Empire series. Whatever that ends up meaning to you ;)
I am agnostic as to version numbering but would vote for the highest bitrate/file size possible.
I have some questions about the Workprint. I've only taken cursory looks and thought I found some groovy 35mm scenes, but my questions are:
What should I be looking for in the Workprint? Has it been color corrected? Should I be noting weird coloring? Non OT stuff that may have slipped through? Aspect ratio changes? I'm just wondering how to best help.
So wait a moment ...
Version 2.0 will be out next week and will have rounded corners and be AVCHD, and version 2.5 will be in mkv and will be out ... when? Days? Weeks? Months? And then there will be a version 3.0 when you get more 35mm sources?
Correct?
Sorry but I am totally confused by the numbering here
pittrek said:
So wait a moment ...
Version 2.0 will be out next week and will have rounded corners and be AVCHD, and version 2.5 will be in mkv and will be out ... when? Days? Weeks? Months? And then there will be a version 3.0 when you get more 35mm sources?
Correct?
Sorry but I am totally confused by the numbering here
Pretty much. Except I think Harmy is thinking of using 2.1 instead of 2.0, and the rounded corners will be gone.
Harmy said:
If I decided to do that, I would probably release v2.1 as just AVCHD with just the basic mixes found on v1.0, plus the commentaries. This would then be perfectly congruent with v2.1 of SW (an AVCHD only release with much better picture than v1.0 and better colors and on top of that some 35mm shots, where they were most needed and better despecialization all around). This would mean that ESB v2.1 could probably be out sometime next week and it would give me some time to gather all the resources for v2.5's audio and subtitles and make that the ultimate, fully featured release.
What do you guys think?
Sounds good as there wasn't a big difference in picture quality between the AVCHD and the MKV version. What really surprises me is that the credits could be done in such a short time. Would it be possible to release some of the foreign audio tracks that would have been included in the MKV version along with the AVCHD, I mean separately? Though I know how to create synched audio tracks, my results aren't nearly as good as the official ones.
Like I already said, the v2.1 AVCHD could be out next week and the v2.5 could follow in a month or two. Neither would have the rounded corners. And then the v3.0 would come out probably after some of the 35mm projects come out - or possibly never, if Disney releases the originals on BD in good quality.
As to the foreign tracks for the AVCHD, I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem to provide them separately upon request but if you have the GOUT in your language, you should be able to just extract the audio from it and it should sync perfectly (unless it's PAL, then you'd have to do a 25fps -> 23,976fps conversion first).
@Joel: You should be looking for all of the things you said or anything else you may think is wrong - it's happened many times before that little details got missed and weren't discovered until after the release. For example, colors or brightness changing mid-shot (or sometimes on the last frame of a shot) and stuff like that.
Okay, there's actually a more significant problem than anything about corners or even colors, and this is gonna have to be decided before anything else can really get done.
Jorel81 PM'd me to let me know there was an audio synch error at the end of the movie—I checked it closely and he's totally right; beginning at 01:44:18 (approximately frame 150,210 or thereabouts) the audio is no longer in synch with the video, but is consistently too early. According to this post, the NTSC version of the GOUT is missing two frames compared to the PAL version. I can't see the pictures in the post anymore, but I remember that it is the last two frames of the shot where Luke jumps off the platform to follow Vader—this is a reel change, if I remember correctly. Because the audio is synched to the NTSC, but the video is being made with reference to the PAL, this means the two are no longer aligned for the last 20 minutes of the film. All the sound is happening in advance of the picture, which is unnatural and obviously incorrect.
This PAL vs NTSC time discrepancy also showed up in RotJ, but there it was more noticeable because it affected a much longer section of the movie, creating obvious lip synch errors in dialogue scenes. Since there isn't as much talking at the end of ESB, perhaps it's not surprising this error has so far passed unnoticed. I actually do recall somewhat noticing this previously, and now that I've investigated the matter more thoroughly, I'm never going to be able to unsee it. This has to be fixed before any release can take place . . . but the question is, how do we fix it?
This is actually a conversation I've had with dark_jedi concerning future releases of RotJ, and since he uses my audio tracks on his versions as well, he should also weigh in for this. The easiest thing to do would be simply to chop out the extra frames to make the video match the NTSC version of the GOUT. This way, any audio track that has been synched to the NTSC can simply be dropped in and will work without any additional labor being required. However, the two frames are a legitimate part of the film, and the NTSC is technically 'wrong' to have dropped them, so if you want to get 'purist' about it, they should be left in . . .
Keep in mind that it is common for frames to be dropped at reel changes on both theatrical prints and home video telecines, which is why the reels are chosen to begin and end in places where this would be unobtrusive. Without a comparison between them, you'd probably never notice that one was slightly shorter than the other. If Harmy wants to keep the frames, then all the audio tracks he plans on including will go out of synch if they were made with reference to the NTSC, and will require realignment to fix this issue (which will then make them incompatible with other video releases). Editing the video is by far the easiest solution. I can edit some of the audio to match the PAL video instead if need be, but for reasons of compatibility and the potential confusion this could cause, it may not be the best choice to do so.
On the other hand this means, all audio tracks sourced from PAL releases (LDs and GOUT) will be out of sync, in case the video is fixed?
Still, I think you (h_h) invested most work in any SW audio tracks on here, so I guess it would be fair to go with the easiest solution for your tracks.
Personally, I wouldn't be concerned with losing the 2 frames. Losing frames at reel changes is like cropping the edges of the 35mm frame - an acceptable and often inevitable consequence of the film medium.
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I have not watched the whole thing, but I will share what I've found so far. Also, please know I am not comparing these to anything but memory and with other scenes within the workprint. Also, frame numbers and times aren't beginning frames of shots or scenes, I'm using VLC on a Mac and if there's a way to advance or reverse frame by frame, I don't know about it. With those disclaimers out of the way, here I go.
Frames 21729 through approx 22100, the lower left corner of the screen looks more teal than the rest of the shot on my monitor.
22527 (00:15:38:14) The sky on the horizon as seen through the cockpit, flashes wildly. This could be in all ESB versions, I don't have others immediately on hand.
31050 (~00:21:33:19) There is something very "right" about this shot. I wondered if it was 35mm? However, Luke's flight suit seems pale/washed out. I may just be used to the 2004 and newer vivid oranges?
~33921 (00:23:33:08) Display screen "grid" moves/flashes, and instead of looking like little squares displaying video, it looks like more like one big screen with dots all over it. They appear to crawl and move, and it gets worse the next time we see it, around frame 34110.
34368 All the flight suits are washed-out similar to Luke's in the scene listed above, kind of dull. Leia's hair is lighter brown, almost like red hair here, too.
46590 Luke's Flight suit is VERY bright here, almost fluorescent Yellow-orange
48357 (00:33:34:20) Smoke on the left side looks bright blue. Possibly intentional, possibly a blu-ray/DVD holdover?
51985 (00:36:06:00) The "glow" around hoth looks really bright, almost fluorescent blue. Is this correct? It looks too light and too bright on my screen.
52808 (00:36:40:07) EXCELLENT! The Star Destroyer lights on the left look like natural light photographed in '79… Also, I just love the colors of the ships during this whole sequence. Excellent blue TIE Fighters, etc. Nice work!
53057 (00:36:50:16) This cockpit shot is so beautiful! Is that 35mm? The colors are super warm and saturated.
55572 (00:38:35:11) Color palette seems to have gone Sepia here, more monochrome, definitely more brown- same with 55729 (00:38:42:00)
Color is awesome again at 55786 (00:38:44:09)
… And that's where I've left off. These were things that jumped out at me, they might all be absolutely correct and I'm just not used to seeing them.
In any case, it's looking great overall. I haven't gotten far enough into the movie to get to the audio sync issue, obviously, but everything I've seen feels more like Empire than it has in years. Thank you for that!
Oh, yeah, just tell me which frames to drop and I'll do it.
Joel said:
Frames 21729 through approx 22100, the lower left corner of the screen looks more teal than the rest of the shot on my monitor.
That's simply because the actual objects in that part of the frame are brighter.
22527 (00:15:38:14) The sky on the horizon as seen through the cockpit, flashes wildly. This could be in all ESB versions, I don't have others immediately on hand.
Yeah, that is a consequence of despecializing the shot but I wouldn't say that it flashes wildly - it flashes a bit and there's not much I can do about it unfortunately.
31050 (~00:21:33:19) There is something very "right" about this shot. I wondered if it was 35mm? However, Luke's flight suit seems pale/washed out. I may just be used to the 2004 and newer vivid oranges?
Really? If anything, it seems too orange to me.
~33921 (00:23:33:08) Display screen "grid" moves/flashes, and instead of looking like little squares displaying video, it looks like more like one big screen with dots all over it. They appear to crawl and move, and it gets worse the next time we see it, around frame 34110.
That's always been that way.
34368 All the flight suits are washed-out similar to Luke's in the scene listed above, kind of dull. Leia's hair is lighter brown, almost like red hair here, too.
Again, it seems perfectly fine to me.
46590 Luke's Flight suit is VERY bright here, almost fluorescent Yellow-orange
You're right - I will fix it :-)
48357 (00:33:34:20) Smoke on the left side looks bright blue. Possibly intentional, possibly a blu-ray/DVD holdover?
I think that's the way it's supposed to be.
51985 (00:36:06:00) The "glow" around hoth looks really bright, almost fluorescent blue. Is this correct? It looks too light and too bright on my screen.
Looks ok to me.
52808 (00:36:40:07) EXCELLENT! The Star Destroyer lights on the left look like natural light photographed in '79… Also, I just love the colors of the ships during this whole sequence. Excellent blue TIE Fighters, etc. Nice work!
Thanks :-)
53057 (00:36:50:16) This cockpit shot is so beautiful! Is that 35mm? The colors are super warm and saturated.
55572 (00:38:35:11) Color palette seems to have gone Sepia here, more monochrome, definitely more brown- same with 55729 (00:38:42:00)
Color is awesome again at 5786 (00:38:44:09)
I'll look into it.