Harmy's THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK Despecialized Edition HD - V2.0 - MKV & AVCHD (Released) — Page 70

Author: stretch009
Time: 30-Jun-2014 7:47 PM
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CatBus said:

God, I was positive it was gonna be the color of the snow on Hoth this time around.

After watching the workprint on my HDTV this was actually the only thing I was unsure about. I thought Hoth was going to be more blue (which I've gotten used to) and so many discussions had come to the conclusion that it was originally blue much of the time.

The thing that really stood out for me was much of the time on Hoth it seemed to be closer to a shade of purple. I'm surprised I'm the only one whose noticed this.

Author: steveo68
Time: 30-Jun-2014 7:59 PM
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stretch009

Love your analogy of the SE's to a keyed car, stretch009.

Author: hairy_hen
Time: 1-Jul-2014 12:09 AM
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I noticed the snow appearing purple in some shots, and I think that does need correction back into actual blueness.

As for the amount of blue, I think this was inconsistent in the film itself, so it's hard to say for sure how much there should or should not be. I keep going back and forth about it in my own mind, but I'm pretty happy with it looking as it currently does, provided the strange purple issue is eliminated.

Author: CatBus
Time: 1-Jul-2014 12:24 AM
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Now that's more like it. Mission accomplished, thread re-railed.

Author: Harmy
Time: 1-Jul-2014 2:15 AM
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You know guys, the WP has a timecode for a reason - can you provide times of the shots you think should be fixed? I don't really see any places, where the snow would be purple - I tried to stay away from cyan, which is the predominant snow color of the 2004 master, so I guess I may have gone too far towards the other side of the spectrum here and there but I need particular shots.

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Author: Verboten
Time: 1-Jul-2014 3:57 AM
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I'll try this again.

Does this scene not look like this to anyone else?

Author: Tobar
Time: 1-Jul-2014 5:31 AM (Edited)
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I know I said my last post was it but I really felt like I had to address this.

Harmy said:

And losing picture information isn't really an argument - losing a small part around the edges is not only not altering the movie, it is proper.

Losing some of the image in projection and overscan on televisions is a technical limitation of the medium. Removing more of the image than is necessary to fit the proper aspect ratio of a film is a creative decision that does not fit within the purview of what is supposed to be a restoration.

You would never see Criterion round crop one of their releases and I think most would agree that they're authorities in this area.

If the rounded corners provide you personally with a sense of nostalgia that's a fine thing. But rounded theater screens are not universal. Providing it as an option would have been perfectly fine but now they're something that has been forced on everyone. And that just reminds me of something someone else would do.

I would hope after all the hard work to undo what's been done to the film over the years, that you'd be understanding of that.

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Author: The Griff
Time: 1-Jul-2014 6:16 AM
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Beber said:

So you're planning to keep it that way in the final release?

Harmy said:

Yes, definitely. Not only because I like it - and I do - but also because the despecialized shots have already been rendered with the matte in place.

Even if one were to convince Harmy otherwise, the "damage" is already done. Let's move on.

Author: Turisu
Time: 1-Jul-2014 6:50 AM
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The Griff said:

Beber said:

So you're planning to keep it that way in the final release?

Harmy said:

Yes, definitely. Not only because I like it - and I do - but also because the despecialized shots have already been rendered with the matte in place.

Even if one were to convince Harmy otherwise, the "damage" is already done. Let's move on.

So you're saying that the original source has been permanently altered and therefore there's no chance of a release of the unaltered version??! :o

George creates Star Wars.
Star Wars creates fans.
George destroys Star Wars.
Fans destroy George.
Fans create Star Wars.

Author: SilverWook
Time: 1-Jul-2014 7:30 AM
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Not again!

What's really funny is a similar debate has taken place over the forthcoming Blu Ray release of Manos: The Hands of Fate.

I strongly suggest someone create a new thread for this debate elsewhere.

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Where were you in '77?

Author: steveo68
Time: 1-Jul-2014 7:57 AM
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Watched some more of this last night and noticed the rounded corners everyone is talking about. And I must say, I can't believe people are complaining that much about them. It's like losing 4 pixels; it's so minute.

Author: Feallan
Time: 1-Jul-2014 9:38 AM (Edited)
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The debate got so heated not because of this particular detail, but because of people so fiercely defending it. They weren't simply stating "I like these corners". If you replaced "Harmy" with "Lucas" in some of those posts, you'd think these guys were defending special editions. Also, the fact that the change is already done didn't really help in calming things down.

I'm fine with corners rounded or unrounded, but some people should really think about what they're saying.

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Author: Harmy
Time: 1-Jul-2014 10:26 AM (Edited)
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OK, although it makes me quite unhappy and I still disagree with most of the arguments against the corners, the backlash from so many people invested in this project makes me even unhappier, so I'm gonna get rid of the corners. It will be quite a lot of work though, so I expect it to push the release a bit.

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Author: AntcuFaalb
Time: 1-Jul-2014 10:32 AM (Edited)
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FWIW: It should still be possible to implement the rounded corners as a graphical subtitle track, as Laserschwert said.

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Author: Laserschwert
Time: 1-Jul-2014 10:34 AM
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Harmy said:

so I expect it to push the release a bit.

That's okay :)

Author: towne32
Time: 1-Jul-2014 10:41 AM
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Harmy said:

OK, although it makes me quite unhappy and I still disagree with most of the arguments against the corners, the backlash from so many people invested in this project makes me even unhappier, so I'm gonna get rid of the corners. It will be quite a lot of work though, so I expect it to push the release a bit.

That's ridiculously nice of you, Harmy. Sorry that this has screwed with your timing. While I will prefer it with the corners uncropped, the difference wouldn't have bugged me enough to complain in this thread. But the fact that you're going through this trouble for us, and not yourself... I've got to express my gratitude.

Author: Harmy
Time: 1-Jul-2014 10:48 AM
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OK, there will be some cases, where going back to the original files and re-rendering won't be an option anymore - in those cases, would you prefer I

A) Keep the corners just in those shots

B) Crop the corners out by zooming the shots in a bit

C) Try to paint them out invisibly (that is the option I'm personally leaning towards)

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Author: AntcuFaalb
Time: 1-Jul-2014 10:56 AM
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I vote D.

D) Keep the rounded corners on the whole thing.

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

Author: CatBus
Time: 1-Jul-2014 10:59 AM (Edited)
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AntcuFaalb said:

FWIW: It should still be possible to implement the rounded corners as a graphical subtitle track, as Laserschwert said.

Yeah, I could throw one of these together pretty trivially, I believe, if there's interest. The problem, of course, is that you couldn't use this overlay and also use graphical subtitles at the same time.

EDIT: I vote C.

Author: n00b
Time: 1-Jul-2014 11:07 AM (Edited)
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Harmy said:

OK, although it makes me quite unhappy and I still disagree with most of the arguments against the corners, the backlash from so many people invested in this project makes me even unhappier, so I'm gonna get rid of the corners. It will be quite a lot of work though, so I expect it to push the release a bit.

Thanks, you're awesome!!!

I also think C) is the best choice if only some shots are affected.

Author: Silent Man
Time: 1-Jul-2014 11:14 AM
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Harmy said:

OK, there will be some cases, where going back to the original files and re-rendering won't be an option anymore - in those cases, would you prefer I

A) Keep the corners just in those shots

B) Crop the corners out by zooming the shots in a bit

C) Try to paint them out invisibly (that is the option I'm personally leaning towards)

Option C, especially if it's the one you're already leaning towards.

Author: Turisu
Time: 1-Jul-2014 11:58 AM
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Option C, please. :)

George creates Star Wars.
Star Wars creates fans.
George destroys Star Wars.
Fans destroy George.
Fans create Star Wars.

Author: Murry Sparkles
Time: 1-Jul-2014 12:01 PM
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AntcuFaalb said:

I vote D.

D) Keep the rounded corners on the whole thing.

+1.

Author: pittrek
Time: 1-Jul-2014 12:04 PM
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I agree with option D :-)

Author: Kingherb
Time: 1-Jul-2014 12:07 PM (Edited)
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If your going ahead with the change i vote C also.