Harmy said:
* photos *
C'mon, what exactly is the point of those photos? I could post a million photos of theater screens that DON'T have rounded corners... so how does this support you decision?
Guys, I think he's explained why he did it and keeping the argument going isn't going to change things. It's called "Harmy's..." edition and he's free to do with it what he wants. It's the tiniest change that, I agree, most people wouldn't even have noticed if it weren't brought up in the first place.
I watched the WP several times (not completely, just different sections to see how awesome they were now) and never even noticed it. He's not restoring this so other people can use his version to make their own 'better' ones later on, so that point is moot. He wasn't commissioned by Disney to do a 100% faithful restoration for mass release to the public where something like this wouldn't be allowed, it's *his* version - for us.
The bottom line is - if you don't like it, don't watch it. Or better yet, if you don't want rounded corners on the version you watch, I challenge any of you that are arguing this point to roll up your sleeves and try to make a better one. Simple. :)
Keep going, H-Man! Can't wait for the final version to come out so I can buy it. Oh wait, that's right - it's free.
(P.S. Why are you even looking in the corners anyway? Watch the damn movie and enjoy it! LoL)
“Evacuate ...in our moment of triumph? I think you overestimate their chances.”
Tobar said:
It's excessive cropping of the image and a loss of image information.
It's the opposite. If the rounded corners of the 35mm frames are visible, the frames aren't cropped enough if original theatrical aspect ratio and presentation is the goal.
We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions.
Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com
msycamore said:
Tobar said:
It's excessive cropping of the image and a loss of image information.
It's the opposite. If the rounded corners of the 35mm frames are visible, the frames aren't cropped enough if original theatrical aspect ratio and presentation is the goal.
That's right. You will definitely get cropping in our version too. So you won't know what your missing out on, and shouldn't be seeing it anyways.
Team Negative1
Zer0Squared said:
The bottom line is - if you don't like it, don't watch it. Or better yet, if you don't want rounded corners on the version you watch, I challenge any of you that are arguing this point to roll up your sleeves and try to make a better one. Simple. :)
Kinda defies the point of a feedback thread ;)
Laserschwert said:
Kinda defies the point of a feedback thread ;)
Hehe. Feedback is fine. I'm sure that's what Harmy wants to see. It's one thing for people to 'mention' that they personally don't like the rounded corners. It's another thing for people to go off on some diatribe and start lecturing Harmy about the semantics of a couple of pixels. :)
“Evacuate ...in our moment of triumph? I think you overestimate their chances.”
I'm late to this discussion. Rounded corners on what?
chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.
msycamore said:
It's the opposite. If the rounded corners of the 35mm frames are visible, the frames aren't cropped enough if original theatrical aspect ratio and presentation is the goal.
But those aren't the rounded corners of the 35mm frames. If there's any scene in the workprint that naturally has the rounded corners in the same place (because 35mm frames had to be used) and the missing picture information can't be "restored" by duplication or the use other sources, this clipping mask would make sense.
Zer0Squared said:
Laserschwert said:
Kinda defies the point of a feedback thread ;)
Hehe. Feedback is fine. I'm sure that's what Harmy wants to see. It's one thing for people to 'mention' that they personally don't like the rounded corners. It's another thing for people to go off on some diatribe and start lecturing Harmy about the semantics of a couple of pixels. :)
One man's feedback is another man's lecture. I haven't seen any diatribes or anything other than reasonably expressed points of view on both sides. This is the purpose of a discussion thread. And I'm certain there are many other topics here that discuss at length things that to most people would amount to nothing more than "a couple of pixels".
That's why we're all here; because it's the little things that matter to us. ;)
George creates Star Wars.
Star Wars creates fans.
George destroys Star Wars.
Fans destroy George.
Fans create Star Wars.
I watched the workprint on my 40in HDTV and the corners didn't bother me at all, and I was looking for them. My only curiosity is why there weren't rounded corners in SW V2.5.
Technically I think it shouldn't be a problem to add the rounded corners as a subtitle track, so that anyone can just turn them on and off to their liking. Of course this would require a corner-less version to start with :P
Guys, it's .002% of the picture. Not that rounded corners normally matter, but in comparatively brief clips where your attention is focused on literally every other part of the frame, they matter even less.
Complaining about that is the saddest Goddamn thing. Just crop that .002% when v2.0 comes out. Or just, you know, rethink your priorities in life.
“Evacuate ...in our moment of triumph? I think you overestimate their chances.”
DavidMerrick said:
Or just, you know, rethink your priorities in life.
I'm neither for nor against the rounded corners, but I think this is a cheap shot. Ad hominems don't fly around here.
Someone (e.g., many TFNers) could just as easily say the same thing about how we feel regarding the special edition changes.
The fact of the matter is that many of us come here to escape the drudgery of daily life; many of us enjoy minutiae; and, believe it or not, many of us have our priorities straight.
A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.
I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!
—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3
I understand people speaking up for Harmy's right to do whatever he wants with his own project. I also understand people saying this is too small a change to be bothersome.
But, out of interest, is there anyone here besides Harmy who can honestly say that they believe the rounded corners are an improvement?
George creates Star Wars.
Star Wars creates fans.
George destroys Star Wars.
Fans destroy George.
Fans create Star Wars.
Well, what I was trying to say with the pictures was A) how I got the idea in the first place - I noticed in many cinemas, that the screens had rounded corners, just like film prints do. And B) that it's not a change to the movie itself at all, it's a change to its presentation - exactly like if you went to see it in a cinema which had rounded corners on its screen and then went to see it in one, where they had straight corners - you're still watching the exact same movie, only with slightly different cropping.
And losing picture information isn't really an argument - losing a small part around the edges is not only not altering the movie, it is proper. And how exactly this cropping is done depends on the venue you're in.
I didn't even notice the rounded corner, but here's my 2 cents (for what it's worth). I truely appreciate Harmy doing this intensive work to restore great films.
While I love seeing the changes that anyone does to Star Wars, even Lucas, my hope for these "preservations" was to get them as close to theatrical, video or laser disc release as possible; that's what I grew up with and that is what is ingrained in my memory. Why not first restore as close as possible, put that version out and then make tweaks that "you", the editors of these, want to see. Like I said earlier, I am glad to see what you think needs to be fixed, but I would also love to see what I grew up with. With all that being said, the people that make these have their own agenda and that's fine, I'm just glad to see cleaned up and upscaled versions that fit my current tv.
So, thank you, Harmy for all your hard work. It is truely appreciated by a lot of people!
If you can see the rounded corners, it simply means you're sitting too close to your screen :)
Or too far - ideally, you should only see the edges of the screen with your peripheral vision - that is why the scope aspect ratio simulates the AR of human vision :-)
Honestly my ONLY problem with the rounded corners is consistency throughout the trilogy. I say if he adds them here, Harmy should also add them to SW. Idk why but little image inconsistencies like that drive me crazy cuz I'll be having a marathon or something and one doesn't have them and then BOOM the next couple have them. It just makes it feel a little disjointed is all =P Honestly I like the rounded corners. It does add to the experience of seeing a well-preserved, expertly cleaned up and restored print. Good job Harmy!
Having just watched ESB 1.0 a few days ago, the 2.0 workprint destroys it in every possible way. The bump in image quality is awesome, and I'm stunned by the massive improvement of all the Cloud City scenes. Loving the overall color palette, and the lightsaber duel is a thing of beauty now. Seriously impressive work and easily the best I've ever seen this film look. My nephew is approaching the age where he's ready to watch Star Wars, so these will absolutely be the versions he sees. It really means a lot that I can share these films with him the way I saw them at his age. Thanks for that, Harmy!
As for the all-important corner debate of 2014, I'm not a huge fan of that particular cropping choice considering my venue is a rectangular HDTV in my living room, but I also respect Harmy's opinion on the matter. Ultimately this is his ship and we're all just passengers (extremely lucky and grateful passengers) along for the ride.
.
For me every single pixel possible of the original film frame is what i would go for.
Simple solution for people who do not want every milimeter of the film frame, on the pc with mpc-hc press 9 on keypad once and voila no more rounded corners.
enjoy the zoom ;)
Harmy said:
Well, actually, to be honest, when I made the mask for the cropping, I made the edges round - they are not like that on the BD - I just like it this way, because it gives the whole thing a more film-like feel. I'm actually pretty surprised no-one asked about this before, I kept dreading it since the first workprint :-D
I don't understand why you made the edges round. You will only see round edges when the screen the movie is projected on has round edges (was this actuallyalready the case when the SW movies were in theatres?), not because the projected source has round edges. Also, when someones want round edges he or she can make/buy a screen with round edges. People who don't want round edges now have no choice.
God, I was positive it was gonna be the color of the snow on Hoth this time around. Just shows how good I am at predicting things.
Our opinions are very much known. No need for further pile-on IMO. I agree with Harmy that whatever your position on the matter, it's essentially not a very big deal, and I also understand that is the shots are already despecialized in this manner, I am not going to ask him to do it all over again over this.
