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So....did Grievous know that Palpatine was Sidious?

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I've always been puzzled by this as the movie doesn't make it very clear. Grievous seems to be pretty close to Dooku in terms of power and influence over the separatist army, plus he's undergone some Sith training, so it seems somewhat likely that he was in on the secret. Dooku definitely knows, since he was Palpatine's apprentice, and we've seen them on screen together meeting face to face. (One could argue that Nute Gunray should have put 2 and 2 together, but since his only interactions with Sidious were through a low-quality holographic image, I'll let that slide). Furthermore, immediately after escaping from the Jedi, Grievous contacts Sidious and says "But the loss of Count Dooku!" which could imply that he thinks Sidious knows that Dooku has been killed, indicating that he knows Sidious had been in the room when it happened.

However, if he does know, then I really don't understand why he would capture him. Was it all a ruse to lure Anakin to his ship, so he and the two Sith lords could try to tempt and corrupt him? How could they know that Anakin and Obi-Wan would be sent to rescue Palpatine? How did they know they wouldn't be killed before they even got to the ship? Maybe Palpatine predicted that would happen, kinda like he predicted that Luke would confront Vader on Endor? I can't think of a real good reason why they would fake a capture, so I'm kinda leaning towards Grievous didn't know and just happened to kidnap his own boss without realizing it....which still kind of strikes me as pretty bad writing. 

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Cthulhunicron said:

....which still kind of strikes me as pretty bad writing. 

That's kinda the hallmark of the PT.

I assume that Grievous did not know, because I always saw Grievous as a lesser figure in the Separatist movement than Dooku, and I figure that Palps would want to keep his identity as secret as possible.

Keep Circulating the Tapes.

END OF LINE

(It hasn’t happened yet)

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No one in the PT knew anything that an imbecile in the real world would have been able to figure out right away.

That's the best answer in a nutshell.

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Doesn't Grievous call Sidious immediately after Palpatine escapes him saying that he failed?

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The last Tartakovsky Clone Wars episode which was the official tie-in to ROTS until it was later kind of trampled on, depicted Grievous threatening to kill the Chancellor if his Master hadn't ordered him to be captured alive.

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Not exactly. Palpy tells GG to relocate the separatist leaders and they briefly mention the death of Dooku.

Making it possible that GG was in the loop the whole time..

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The only way I can get this to make sense in my head is if Grievous sent him a quick communication in the escape pod, briefly summarizing what just happened, and the scene where he's talking to Sidious's hologram is their follow-up conversation.  If that scene is literally supposed to be the first time he's contacted Sidious since his ship was destroyed, then it seems to suggest that he knew all along, which makes the whole abduction seem pretty pointless.

I can just picture Grievous capturing Palpatine and Palpatine's whispering at him, "It's me, you nitwit! I'm working both sides!"

I think this is probably one of the most poorly written parts of the whole PT.

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In the novelization (or at least novelization), Grievous wants to kill Palpatine, but is denied that permission by Sidious, much to his frustration. I think Grievous was intended to be in the dark about Palpatine's double identity, but it was poorly played.

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I always figured he was just a flunky and wasn't in a need to know position.

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It never even occurred to me he might know.

Gregious was obviously a useful idiot, just like the Jedi were to Papulae.

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 (Edited)

I think he was more than a flunky. He did order the separatist leaders to Mustafar, so it seemed like with Dooku dead, he was directly below Sidious in the chain of command.

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 (Edited)

I use the phrase "Useful Idiot" in the political sense--an extra-pejorative version of Cat's Paw.  It doesn't mean flunky--it means someone who has some power, and is manipulated into using it to ends of which he is unaware.

See, e.g., every POTUS since JFK got "corrected"

I mean, think about your "support" for the thesis that he was in the know: that he acted as if Darf Syphilis was a witness to Doodoo's death when he asks, "But, the loss of Count Doodoo!"  Based on clear, obvious tone and context, Gregious obviously believes the loss of Doodu was a setback, or he wouldn't even ask the question.  Therefore, if Gregious knew that Papulae was a witness to the death, he would have known that Papulae/Syphilis gave the command!  This would have confused good ol' Gregious more than Syphilis's seeming nonchalance about the death itself, no?

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If Grievous knew that Palpatine witnessed Dooku's death, that doesn't necessarily mean that he knew Palpatine ordered it. One of his droids could have walked up to him and said "Sir, the Jedis killed Dooku and freed the Chancellor." If Grievous knows Dooku is dead, and he knows that Palpatine and Sidious are the same person, and he knows that Palpatine was in the room when Dooku was killed, then it makes sense why he says "But...the loss of Count Dooku!" instead of "Sir, I have bad news. Count Dooku was killed."

However, if he didn't know, then did Palpatine order his own capture? Seems like Grievous was taking all his orders from Sidious and Dooku. Even if Sidious didn't order his own capture, and Grievous came up with the idea on his own, it seems like he'd still run the idea by his superiors. If I were Palpatine and Grievous said to me, "Hey I'm thinking of capturing the chancellor," I might try to steer him in another direction.  Or at the very least, make it difficult for one of the armies I'm controlling to capture me.  If you're going to play both sides of a military conflict, and your subordinates on one side don't realize you're also the leader of the opposing force, it's probably a bad idea to let them capture you, since they might think killing the enemy leader would win them the war. 

In any event, it's pretty clear to me that Lucas didn't think about any of this when he was writing the script, and ultimately it's ambiguous what Grievous actually knew.

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The EU explains that Palpatine did indeed orchestrate his own capture, though I forget for what reason.

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Probably to test Anakin's mettle in order to gauge his potential as a Sith apprentice or some such convoluted hoohah.

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How could he have known that Anakin would be sent to rescue him? 

And even if the EU does explain it, that doesn't excuse the fact that the movie leaves it so unclear.

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I'm pretty sure that was it, actually. He wanted to be captured so that Anakin would rescue him (I forget how he knew it was going to be Anakin) and fight with Count Dooku. He promised Dooku that if Anakin gained the upper hand, he would interfere, but his real plan was, of course, to get Dooku out of the way if Anakin was more powerful.

A typical EU explanation trying to rectify bad writing.

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I never thought grevious knew about palpating. I always took him to be like those others dooku manipulated. Just the two who we're sith knew is what I thought. 

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brentspender said:

I never thought grevious knew about palpating. I always took him to be like those others dooku manipulated. Just the two who we're sith knew is what I thought. 

 Grevious never struck me as the sharpest knife in the drawer. Smart henchmen who aren't fooled by you wearing a hood and keeping your face in perpetual shadow are too much of a liability anyway.

Not sure I want to know what palpating is. ;)

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Where were you in '77?

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I try not to look too deeply into the PT. The PT is like a pretty chick with little brains. She's nice to look at but can't carry on a good conversation. Admire it for its beauty and not for what it has to say, and it's much more enjoyable that way. The OT is the not quite as superficially pretty sister because her nose is a little crooked. But her mind is sharp and engaging, and that slightly crooked nose gives her a shit tone of beautiful character. 

I am what all Jedi fear to become, and what all Sith wish to be. A GOD!