Info: The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly - 4k nightmare — Page 2

There is definitely more detail in the MGM 4K, although the contrast is off and there's some pretty heavy noise in some scenes.  I prefer the Mondo color grading, if they wouldn't have pushed the yellow so hard.....and then there are scenes like this....

Mondo:

MGM 4K:

Overly dark and blue :(

What users mistakenly call "noise" is film grain in the 4K MGM blu-ray transfer. Learn the difference.

FremenDar2019 said:

What users mistakenly call "noise" is film grain in the 4K MGM blu-ray transfer. Learn the difference.

 Ha that's funny, I know what grain is.  Trust me some of this grain is bordering on garbage noise, as if the encode can't handle it.  Do you even own this yet?

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

OK, first I'd like to know if I have well understood the situation...

The italian BD has the best color grading, according to many, while the new 4K version has a better definition, right?

Well, if the links I posted are to the right editions, there is a problem... the italian one is 167 minutes while the 4K is only 155 minutes... or is the latter length wrong?

 It is wrong. The duration of the 4K is 178:36 min; it contains several scenes more than the Italian version, most notably the Il Grotto sequence, as well as some other bits and pieces. See here: http://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=624419

I think for the video it's possible to color regrade the 4K version using the italian BD as reference, then use the latter for the (eventual) missing shots; for the audio, it is possible to use the laserdisc for almost all, then use the missing part from the 4K BD (if it has also the extended edition) or a previous extended edition DVD.

Basically, the 4K version contains most of the shots. The only two shots the Italian has which the 4K doesn't are in the torture scene (alternative footage of Tuco's eyes being squashed by Wallace) which is two shots only.

I already started work of my own, restoring original mono from the theatrical version (a buddy promised to grab the LD PCM track for me). As far as I know, there is only one extended scene in the Extended version using replaced sound effects. These can be sourced either from the untouched Italian track of the old BluRay, or from the German mono track (DTS-HDMA 1.0) of the new one.

Well, I must confess I'm not well informed about the various versions of this movie, but indeed I'm curious to know if I could be able to help.

As a matter of fact, I am well informed about them all. :)

Also, this laserdisc box set could be indeed useful for the other two movies!

Why? There are almost perfect German editions of the first two movies (FOD: based on Italian source; FAFDM: based on MGM source but fully uncut), containing English original mono in DTS-HDMA. All widescreeen MGM editions of FAFDM are cut.

I got to say I still prefer the Mondo coloring Andrea. The desert has a blasted out look in the first pic, I am actually seeing what's going on in the night scene and blue sky is blue.

I think defenders of this transfer fail to ask some pertinent questions. The greatest of which is: could that look of been achieved in the 60's? I have never seen a 60's era film look like that, much less a Techniscope one. Even with extensive use of filters and gels that color screams modern computer color correction. Meanwhile the Mondo looks similar to every other color Italian film of that era and every other Techniscope/Technicolor from that era. It looks like other spaghetti westerns from the 60's. I mean why have the Italian and the American transfers looked similar up until now? Did they constantly screw up? Did they never look at an IB Tech print before? This isn't like the late 70's and 80's were the negative and the print could have different color timing.

I have seen the International print on 35mm twice and the American extended cut on 35mm three times. In all of them, blue is actually sky blue. Just like this pic of the 35mm off ebay:

And its not just the yellow that is the problem. It is the over all "cross-processed" green look of the 4K. If they added a little yellow like Andrea's 50/50, I could believe that but the excessive jaundiced yellow and the lime green? The sad fact is that it has been re-graded to look cool and modern. Done to attract new viewers who unknowingly are use to a modern color palette.

A good example, I was watching that crappy movie, Non Stop, last night and the shade of blue/teal was similar to the 4K. It just didn't have the yellow:

Hell I could watch Transformers to get the same effect (even has the yellow):

But I rather watch a good film or a great one like TGTBATU.

I wish instead of an assistant to an assistant they just asked the original cinematographer, Toni Delli Colli. He would be a much better authority.

TheHutt said:

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

OK, first I'd like to know if I have well understood the situation...

The italian BD has the best color grading, according to many, while the new 4K version has a better definition, right?

Well, if the links I posted are to the right editions, there is a problem... the italian one is 167 minutes while the 4K is only 155 minutes... or is the latter length wrong?

 It is wrong. The duration of the 4K is 178:36 min; it contains several scenes more than the Italian version, most notably the Il Grotto sequence, as well as some other bits and pieces. See here: http://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=624419

I think for the video it's possible to color regrade the 4K version using the italian BD as reference, then use the latter for the (eventual) missing shots; for the audio, it is possible to use the laserdisc for almost all, then use the missing part from the 4K BD (if it has also the extended edition) or a previous extended edition DVD.

Basically, the 4K version contains most of the shots. The only two shots the Italian has which the 4K doesn't are in the torture scene (alternative footage of Tuco's eyes being squashed by Wallace) which is two shots only.

I already started work of my own, restoring original mono from the theatrical version (a buddy promised to grab the LD PCM track for me). As far as I know, there is only one extended scene in the Extended version using replaced sound effects. These can be sourced either from the untouched Italian track of the old BluRay, or from the German mono track (DTS-HDMA 1.0) of the new one.

Well, I must confess I'm not well informed about the various versions of this movie, but indeed I'm curious to know if I could be able to help.

As a matter of fact, I am well informed about them all. :)

Also, this laserdisc box set could be indeed useful for the other two movies!

Why? There are almost perfect German editions of the first two movies (FOD: based on Italian source; FAFDM: based on MGM source but fully uncut), containing English original mono in DTS-HDMA. All widescreeen MGM editions of FAFDM are cut.

 I can give you the Laserdisc's PCM Mono if you want Hutt. I ripped it a year ago.

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

@PDB: it was just an idea (the 50/50); but, if you like Mondo color grading best, what do you think of the 4K regraded versions I've done?

If someone would provide two small pieces of both (1min will suffice) I'd like to try it with real footage and not only screenshots.

 Oh I'm not against your 50/50 Andrea idea, please take no offense. I was just against the 4K's colors all together. I just don't understand why people defend it, when it doesn't even look like it could be right. I don't fault a modern film for looking like that but an almost 50 year old film? Especially, my favorite film. Again I just wish someone was able to get that 35mm LPP off of Ebay.

I love your 4K with Mondo's colors. The best of both worlds, the 4K detail (which seems to be more then the 2K Mondo) and the better (more correct) colors of the Mondo. 

Do you need footage of the Mondo or 4K?

And I just looked in on the thread on blu-ray.com which looks to be much the same discussion even with similar pics (the ebay 35mm) and similar people (from the OT). I guess at the end of the day, if you like the 4K, buy that copy. I don't and think it is a defective product both in video and audio just like the previous MGM blu-ray. Thank God we have great people here at the OT, like Andrea to make it right.

PDB said:

 I can give you the Laserdisc's PCM Mono if you want Hutt. I ripped it a year ago.

I won't say no to such an offer! The earlier I could start work on it, the better.

PS: personally, I am more infuriated by the omission of the original mono track (the one included is still the downmix of the 5.1 sound with replaced gunshots), than by the colors.

Now that's really odd. I have started work with the help of the LD mono track from PDB, but this LD version seems to be even more cut than the R1 Theatrical DVD version!

For instance, there are missing pieces from the initial walk-up of the three bounty hunters trying to attack Tuco (first scene in film); also, in the encounter between Angel Eyes and the farmer (second scene in film) the line "You coming from Baker?" is missing.

The R1 DVD was intact in these scenes, strangely.

TheHutt said:

Now that's really odd. I have started work with the help of the LD mono track from PDB, but this LD version seems to be even more cut than the R1 Theatrical DVD version!

For instance, there are missing pieces from the initial walk-up of the three bounty hunters trying to attack Tuco (first scene in film); also, in the encounter between Angel Eyes and the farmer (second scene in film) the line "You coming from Baker?" is missing.

The R1 DVD was intact in these scenes, strangely.

Strange it should be there. I just checked my loseless (video/audio) I made of my LD and it is there (You're from Baker?) But that is made with the analog audio and not the digital PCM. I gave you my PCM recording to which I was going to merge the two. Hutt you want me to send you a copy of the video/analog? I will pull out the LD and see if the PCM has the line.

At this point I should note that the widescreen LD I have is this:

http://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/02125/ML101739/Good-the-Bad-and-the-Ugly-The-(1966)) 

Whereas the DVD is the same master as this LD:

http://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/08335/ML106729/Good-the-Bad-and-the-Ugly-The-(1966)

which I don't have. That's important since what most people don't know is that the two laserdiscs are slightly different. The one I have has the titles for the characters in Italian and there are some tiny other differences.

The Italians are saying their version of DYS on Blu Ray was colored correctly, I was going to hold out for the US release but from what I've seen with TGTBTU I may as well order the Italian version now.

which I don't have. That's important since what most people don't know is that the two laserdiscs are slightly different. The one I have has the titles for the characters in Italian and there are some tiny other differences.

That's really the odd thing. There are little bits missing here and there: the howling coyote during the walk-up of the three first baddies for example.

That's not an actual problem as I have the DVD track as a backup.

EDIT: I will check my copies. I have the boxset and 1998 LD remaster, and R1 original DVD. IIRC the later LD's audio is a bit cleaner with less noise.

I think the 1998 LD should have the best quality if it's in PCM. When checking the intro music, just in the beginning (with the animated horseman) there is a triple repetition of the "ai-ai-aaah" motif. The third rendition sounds like it was heavily clipping - an effect not present on the 1998 DVD AC3 at this point.

Anyone know where to find the Mondo anymore? I need a copy along with ordering the German BDs of the first two. According to bluray.com there is a new Italian BD but I don't know if it's the same master.

The transfer is still the same, however, the region is locked to B on the new edition. You can get it here.

Tons of info on Leone films on blu here 

Know all these infos. :)

Hey Hutt,

    I just checked the PCM file I sent you earlier and the "You're from Baker?" line is there in meeting with the farmer and Lee Van Cleef. Am I looking in the right place or is that the wrong line?

I think you are right about the missing howls. I just checked that out and I did try to sync this file once a year ago and I think I do recall one section of howls missing. 

TheHutt said:

The transfer is still the same, however, the region is locked to B on the new edition. You can get it here.

 Is it the same encode? VC-1?