twister111 said:

Warbler said:
I don't get this sperm argument you are trying to make.

Alright so first off, this is a discussion that I didn't even want to get into. It's simply something that bothers me about this whole thing. There's all this talk of preserving potential life but the line is conveniently drawn at making it inconvenient for guys. It's as though making them preserve the potential lives in a freezer is way too much to ask for. Yet when it comes down to the health and life of women it's like "tough you had sex. Deal with it." Equating it with slave labour, reckless car crashes and the like.

the line isn't conveniently drawn. The line is drawn at the point a new human life is created. By the way, you are aware that some women draw the the line the same way, right? You really think they deliberately draw it to convenience men and inconvenience themselves?

Warbler said:
2. why is it so difficult for you to understand that sperm is just a cell? Yes it has the potential to create a human life if joined with an egg cell, but until then it is just a cell. There is a big difference between something that has the potential to create a human life, and something that actually is a human life. It is when the egg and sperm combine that a new separate and unque human life is created. Again, you don't have cake batter until the ingredients are combined.

It's not difficult for me to understand it's a cell. Though the big argument here is about what makes a person. A fetus is still not the same as a baby that has been born. Especially in it's early stages when if someone were to put it on the table right in front of your eyes you wouldn't see a damn thing.

I'll say it a third time: ingredients don't become cake batter until they are mixed together. The egg cell and sperm cell are nothing of value until they combine and make a new life.

Warbler said:
Unfortunately, nothing can change the fact that nature gave the ability to carry the child to term to the mother and not the father. However unfair it is, it can not be helped. Please also remember that men who are not decent and honorable, can be forced to pay child support. Which does lead to an interesting question. If the father wanted the child aborted and the mother decided not to abort the child, should a father have to pay child support in that case? Can a father absolve himself of all legal responsiblity for the child because he wanted it aborted and the mother said no? Kinda seems unfair to me that with abortion, a woman has the ability to eliminate all responsiblity for the child, yet the father has no option of avoiding legal responsibility.

Is it really unfair when, as it's been reminded to me in these recent posts, even if a woman does get an abortion there are still possible health risks to her? Either way she doesn't get away without consequence.

unfortunately, nothing can be done about it. Once the woman is pregnant, the health risks are there no matter what is done. Unless and until healthcare improves to point where there is no risk of life in abortion or carrying the baby to term, the risk there.

My point was that with abortion being legal, the mother has the ability to rid herself of all responsibly of the child, the father has no such choice. I think that it is therefor arguable that if a woman wants to carry a baby to term and the father wants it aborted, that she take all responsibly for it.

That said yeah a guy can still avoid paying the child support. It'd just take cutting off any and all ties to their previous lives but it could be done.

that is easier said than done. Also whatever guy is doing this, would have to live with the risk of being found out someday. I think there are legal reprocusions for trying to avoid child support this way. There are also legal reprocusions for going around under a false identity.

Course he could just do it the quick and absolute moronic way too and just sell all his stuff and fly to some foreign country with no plan whatsoever. There are options.

I suppose this is possible,but I think it unlikely.

Unfortunately this is another side effect of nature making it so that women become pregnant and carry the child to term. It can not be helped. If you think I don't sympathize, you are wrong. But really, nothing can be done about it.

These possibilities are all the more reason for women to be very care who they have sex with, especially if the sex is the unprotected kind.