STAR WARS: EP V "REVISITED EDITION"ADYWAN - 12GB 1080p MP4 VERSION AVAILABLE NOW — Page 1207

Hello everyone, I have been following this project since ANH:R and haven't felt the need to switch from lurker to poster until now. With regards to the new canyon clip, not only is it a stunning piece of work but it totally redefines the level of craftsmanship one generally expects from a fan edit. I would like to add my .02 to the discussion by saying that I prefer the first clip Ady did. In the second one the TIEs hit each other and deflect into the canyon walls too quickly. It looks "wrong," which I believe was Ady's point.

I also agree with Darth Venom that the camera shake is perhaps a bit amateurish. Is it possible to lessen the shake without scrapping it completely?

As far as the debate that pops up from time to time about space and the reality of physics, I think this should be tabled forever. We cannot on one hand accept that people possess magic powers (the Force) while on the other hand demanding that every other element of the movie conform to scientific principles.

Anyway, just like everyone else here I can't wait to see ESB:R whan it is complete, AND start posting in the ROTJ:R thread

Couple observations:

How would the dust stirred up from the laser bolts be done in the early 80s? Seeing those takes me out of the experience a bit as they would've been very difficult to create back then.

In the original clip, when the TIEs enter the canyon they do a little positioning maneuver which adds some visual interest in to what is going on. In the revisited clip, they enter via a straight line which not only has less visual interest, it also doesn't make sense that they'd collide flying so evenly spaced.

The original canyon had some texture to the miniature and walls which gave it a good sense of scale. The revisited canyon looks to only have one size of texture on it, and it's so big relative to the ships it no longer looks convincing.

Synnöve said:

The original canyon had some texture to the miniature and walls which gave it a good sense of scale. The revisited canyon looks to only have one size of texture on it, and it's so big relative to the ships it no longer looks convincing.

I think it has to do with the grooves being vertical in de original, making them appear taller, whereas Ady's are more horizontal.

That being said, I REALLY like the enhancements overall. Like others have pointed out, it blends seamlessly with the original footage :) And the light reflections hnnnggggg, so nice!

Synnöve said:

Couple observations:

How would the dust stirred up from the laser bolts be done in the early 80s? Seeing those takes me out of the experience a bit as they would've been very difficult to create back then.

There are a lot more added effects than this which would have also been impossible in 1980. I think you're confusing this with a preservation.

To clarify, this is Ady's version of the 'Special Edition'. Meaning updated effects and error corrections.

I understand the difference. From what I've seen thus far (though I do not follow the progress on this edit religiously), most of what has been added looks as though it could plausibly have been done using the effects methods of the day. Are not most of the offending elements of the SE despised because they look so out of place due to an overtly CG nature?

In regards to vertical vs. horizontal, it's more about the scale and variation of the details vs. the orientation.

Alonzo Mosely said:

We cannot on one hand accept that people possess magic powers (the Force) while on the other hand demanding that every other element of the movie conform to scientific principles.

 but midichlorians

they are very syfy so they are gud

Not so much how the actual plate would be made, but moreso how it would be aligned with the motion of the rest of the shot. Sure they had motion control but the plume would obviously not have been to scale with the rest of the elements, as such the previously used camera moves wouldn't have worked. I imagine it would have taken a lot of time to integrate them properly, and it would have also introduced yet another generation in to an already composite heavy scene.

These sort of things were usually animated by hand or they were very simple shots. Jedi has impact explosions that match motion during a shot but the motion is slow and simple.

To clarify the above applied to the first plume (which has a good amount of motion). The following plumes are on a stable shot.

Few more observations:

-After the collision the right TIE makes several rotations before colliding with the wall. Given the inertia of the ships before the collision, this motion doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. But I'm only commenting on this because I used to animate; it's a very minor point in a well executed shot.

-After the TIEs collide, the camera slows or stops for the last few frames of that shot.

Synnöve said:

The original canyon had some texture to the miniature and walls which gave it a good sense of scale. The revisited canyon looks to only have one size of texture on it, and it's so big relative to the ships it no longer looks convincing.

 I'm also a long time lurker who generally loves what you do Adywan, Thank you.

But I feel compelled to add to the sentiment above, I really think the new canyon walls are a step backwards.  I appreciate you've spent time and effort to get it right but I think they look too modellish and as Synnove suggested it is the texturing that lets it down.

I'm not sure how to fix it, perhaps attacking it with some rough sandpaper in bits or something else to age/weather the sharp cuts on the rocks.

Anyway, it's your baby and I completely understand if you ignore this and I mean no offence to your amazing work.

My two cents:

I think the first clip is better and I really like the camera shake.

I like the shake too but I would have animated a few items being disturbed by the shake, like a hinged wall panel swinging open or some loose objects (pens, coffee mugs, novelty ashtrays, chocolate hobknobs) being thrown to the ground.

^this

the other shot in the belly of the asteroid has shakes while they are throwing themselves about and this should too IMO.

As for gravity in the asteroid they are on a rock spinning through space no fixes needed it's that way deal with it.

The new canyon walls can't be a step bacward as firstly they are no longer black and white and secondly the explosion looks so much better. Ok the falcon movement might get tweaked about and the ties but he basis in a very large capacity for an improved sequence is already there.

Bingowings said:

I like the shake too but I would have animated a few items being disturbed by the shake, like a hinged wall panel swinging open or some loose objects (pens, coffee mugs, novelty ashtrays, chocolate hobknobs) being thrown to the ground.

 tipping over "Mr. Coffee" or "Mr. Radar" ? ;-)

doubleofive said:

I love the shake. The original just looks silly now, with everyone throwing themselves around like they're in Star Trek but without the camera shake.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hdIwGcOL9o

Ha! this looks like when I play video games ...

Concerning reality and physics:

Sure you can argue about the gravity factor and how explosions and dust behave in space, but I think the revisited edtions are edtions mainly on the visual side, that needs improvement or be made more like the original intention again.

Meaning: Yes, there is no sound in space, but it just shoots the films into high gear, it´s unlogical, but ultra cool!!! On the other hand Lucas always said it´s more Sci-Fi fantasy than just straight sci-fi, so let him bend the reality of thing.

But, when I see a moment like "2 star destroyers almost hitting", I see actors act as if they fall or stumble, because you can´t move that set as if... and now this fake stumple thing is supposed to be made better by a fake camera shake. I don´t know... my brain says: Something feels wrong.

Gravity in the asteroid cave:

Hmmm, yes... it was always an unlogical thing, but it never stopt the excitement of the scene and the drama. And maybe the factor, that we have seen it a hundred times, and just accept it.

Now with the dust or debris that falls to quick... well. It is a new visual element and supposed to be an improvement. Maybe we/i will just accept that too. But I never thougt that this asteroid is made of so much sandy stuff. Rock hard asteroid was in my mind, and now this happens :) plus in a way that´s against my view of physics/logic. Hard one... I believe in the end it doesnt matter, because the excitement in that short scene stays intact!

After all, these are things I noticed with a view of how to do the things myself... and by helping to improve things, I wanted to hint little things. But others decide and that is okay.

Nobody at Lucasfilm asked us of anything, while they made the prequels. So this is in any way a fair trade :D

@ Darth Venom Did you spot that Han points to the right when the Cave is actually on the left of the falcon?

When he says "That looks pretty good" the SFX Team team goofed up and never communicated which side the cave was going to be on and made Han look stupid..

I already suggested a fix for this but you know what It does not bother me that much at all. But If the Falcon could be made to appear that it was turning to the right before Han says this then it would fix it and could be done via 2d animation with the rock face as they fly out.

But you can also just say well it's only a movie and forget about it. But to me this is the last problem of the sequence and as always It's rarely a Revisited issue as their work is pretty stunning I wish they would change things more sometimes but it's at that point you get into dangerous ground like George Lucus Did. But I will leave it there for a ponder and not going to complain if it is left alone either. Is it worth fixing? it really won't change all that much from what happens anyway or perhaps do some harm.

But the cave cannot be moved so this is the only way if it even modestly deserves a fix.

My Point Darth Venom is how much should you stray from the source material in order to fix the stuff that a lot of people will not notice. But once you notice it and you know about it a persons perspective will change on the subject. But that does not mean it's worth any effort.

The new canyon is really stellar! Terrific consistency! But what I do miss from the original sequence, and what I think is largely contributing to the problems others are perceiving here (i.e. an apparent loss of kinetic motion), is the swooping camera movement behind the Falcon and TIEs prior to collision. A simple dolly-in has replaced the deft, soaring camera which follows the trajectory of the pursuing ships around the valley and tracks left, into the explosion. Likewise, after the TIEs collide, the camera again sweeps up and leftwards, away from the destruction, matching the Falcon's path as it flies out from the ravine towards camera. Once more, a dolly-out has been used in place.

I think subtracting this visceral cinematography is a great loss; the replacement dolly shots render this set piece decidedly more static. They create, also, a cinematographic inconsistency with the last shot, in which the Falcon flies away from camera before looping down into the "cave" (as more of this balletic camera work features here, following on from that which came before).

Given the superior craft which has distinguished this edit (and which is, in fact, exemplified by this remade canyon segment), offering up such critiques can seem almost too harsh. Ultimately, I agree with what Alonzo Mosely posted earlier - ESB:R will come to redefine people's very notion of a "fan edit". But if it's not too late, I'd hope that the original cinematography for this section could be replicated.

I hate to be that guy, but I have to say that while I do like the added camera shake, it doesn't look as realistic as it could be.  It's obvious that it was added after the fact digitally.  But knowing After Effects myself well enough, I understand that you can get it to look less tacked on and have a more natural movement.  Maybe have it the keyframes more transitioned, especially at the beginning and end of the shake.

Everything else is awesome!

I am going to come at this from another angle and say that I don't think anything has been lost with the change of camera angle or movement. I will give my reasons and explain in this picture.

Ok what is missing.

1 tie fighter falls apart and has a brief flame trail as it crashes on the right we get that electronic flash from the other before they explode. The other thing that I think is contributing is the lack of the visible defined crack that the falcon escapes through that is throwing peoples perspective. But this crack is only revealed on the pan to the left which I think is what people are complaining about. So it's a reveal. I think this could be easily altered without having to re-film also using 2d animation and perhaps recoloring and and masking the original crack but using the canyon walls that are in the new shot.

But I also think that we have to accept this is a totally new shot and that having a different camera angle might not be a bad thing. I do see what people are saying about the velocity but it's also being effected by the lack of the crack that the falcon flies through in that we only see a curve and not a reference point to judge the velocity by.

There is really so little in the camera movement and I feel it's been overblown. And I am fine with it how it is now but If you want my analysis then this is my much closer inspection. I don't mind the angle of the falcon being altered and I prefer that the tie fighters are flying much faster it makes a lot more sense that they then crash and they look 100% better in revisited without any extra effects..

I think moving the canyon walls apart to reveal the crack would be similar to the camera movement except we would be pinned on the falcon. But I have only said this to try and appease the comments that keep flooding in as I personally really like the shot and I think most others do too. Just trying to verbalize or find out what it is exactly that others are going on about and I can see what they are saying but I look at things differently so I try to break it down better.

Edit:

One more thing I have noticed it when the falcon tilts over 90 degrees to the right. In the original there is also a slide to the right in position but this can be attributed to the pan to the left as a compensation.

Translating that exact movement would actually put the falcon a bit more over to the left and have more of a right pull sideways shift when banking around the corner. But at the end of the day like I said before it's a new shot and I am fine with it. just adding this to my observation.

The falcon CGI model of the 6 dark circles on the back only 3 appear to be black or dark in inner three look white for some reason. so I would hope that can be also made a bit darker like black grille circles.

Quick visual suggestion of adding a belt to the star field layer obviously not removing the new asteroids but it might give more depth on this shot.

@monroville re falcon escaping explosion...don't forget that the falcon is further back in revisited so the angle is going to be different and it also has further to fly.

Harmy said:

I think the shots are fine as they are but if one did want to add a bit more dynamism to the camera movement, a bit of rotation could help. Here's a rough demonstration of the idea: http://uloz.to/xqKJtVAq/escape-from-hoth-revisited-mp4

 
Wow! That's it! Fantastic! I think this brings the sequence further in line with the original's lensing - and the best of both worlds is now enjoyed; the liveliness of the initial camera work, in consort with sterling new model and effects work. I really hope this will be taken into consideration!

Wanted to add that I also preferred the first version of the canyon collision, and that this new sequence is incredible - superb job Adywan.