Blu-Ray Of Unaltered Original Trilogy Rumour — Page 6

Lord Haseo said:

I want the OUT on BluRay just as much as anyone of you. But let's not let nostalgia delude us. In editing the OUT is a disaster. HUNDREDS of mistakes per film and outdated technology which of course is charming, but loses it charm overtime as we grow out of adolescence.

Truth be told, I love pretty much each and every one of those mistakes. When I see a prop magically move places or a character suddenly become a mirror image of themself between shots, it's like I'm briefly looking into different alternate SW universes; the variety, however unintentional, appeals to me in a way that streamlined consistency simply doesn't.

SilverWook said:

Lord Haseo said:

lovelikewinter said:

I agree with Tyrphanax 100%.  I just want the movies I saw as a kid.  The one that made me beg my parents to dig my brother's old action figures out of the closet and let me have my own adventures.  Had I been a little older, I would have begged my parents for a laserdisc player to see them in better quality than the old releases that sat on the shelves of my local mom and pop video store.

If Lucas would have just given us a choice, then most of the hard feelings would have gone away.  He didn't for whatever reason.  But now we have the chance to have a high quality release of the OOT.  Something I though would never happen unless Lucas was dead.  

Adywan's Star Wars is a nice variant, but not the Star Wars I and many more will look at the definitive version 20, 30, 100 years down the line.

 I want the OUT on BluRay just as much as anyone of you. But let's not let nostalgia delude us. In editing the OUT is a disaster. HUNDREDS of mistakes per film and outdated technology which of course is charming, but loses it charm overtime as we grow out of adolescence. Now Ady is not only fixing errors, he is filling the imaginative gaps I filled in when watching these films as a child. Just by that alone SW:R is superior regardless of popular opinion.

I learned a lot about editing by studying the original Star Wars in college. Just counting the number of frames a shot lasted was educational. Therefore, I respectfully disagree.

 Then why has it tooken Ady 6 years to attempt to fix everything in ESB? Aside from all the other things he's doing...

Harmy said:

A) Because we're a bunch of nitpickers and with this level of dedication, it would take so long to "fix" any movie ever made and B) It didn't take six years to "fix" everything in ESB it took six years to alter a whole bunch of things and to fix a few others, which could be considered mistakes - just take the clip Adywan just uploaded - while it certainly looks great, out of like a hundred altered shots, there are very few, which could be considered fixes of some actual mistakes, the rest is just enhancing shots, which certainly weren't actual mistakes in the original.

 But in comparison the ESB:R they sure do look like mistakes :D

And I mentioned that he did other things as well. Nice try. 

Harmy said:

Lord Haseo said:

Harmy said:

Yes and what I've been saying is, that I strongly disagree with the statement, that we have a better version. We have an alternate version - whether or not it's better is definitely not empirical - I would definitely enjoy watching the original version more than any other possible version, so I don't have a better version and I don't even have the normal version. And I'm sure a lot of people here would agree.

In what ways do you consider the OUT better? Why would it be so worth your time? And saying "because it's the original version" is not a suitable response. 

 Well, for one, it has no electric thingy on the interrogation droid's needle ;-)

But aside from that, the OOT has great, oscar-winning visual effects, which, unlike modern CGI, have great historical value, so they are more fun to watch - for me anyway, so for me personally, the movie loses like half of its entertainment value just by having the original effects replaced by mundane CGI, but I already said that before. And of course, if you just watch it for the story, this argument gets weaker and some people would say that the CGI effect are more realistic and therfore better, but film-making is an art-form and in art, the technique used is just as important as the content - like, take an oil painting of a horse and a color photograph of a horse - they both show a horse and the photograph shows the horse more realistically, but does that mean, that the photo is better art?

And then you also have the more invasive changes, like the addition of prequel music (I don't want to be reminded of the prequels, when I watch the OT - same reason I hate the changes like Anakin being replaced and Boba Fett being re-dubbed in the official SEs), the Ben's hut scene being re-cut (which is fun as an alternate version but it's at least disputable, which version is better in serving the story and pacing), then you have Ben igniting his lightsaber first, which to me is on the same level as Greedo shooting first. There were other things I didn't particularly like, which I don't remember - it's been years since I last saw Revisited.

EDIT: I remebered a few: The shot of Tarkin removed before the DS explosion (which also doesn't look too great IMO) and then some of the bad official SE additions left over in ANH:R, like super-fake CGI dinosaurs and stormtroopers on Tatooine.

Oh, and with a proper restoration, the OOT of course has the potential to be of much higher picture and audio quality than the current Blu-Rays (not to mention DVDs, if we're comparing to Revisited specifically - since you said that in Revisited we already have a better version and the only version of Revisited we already have is standard def. DVD of course).

 1. The torture droid is a bad idea when you have someone who is as intimidating as Darth Vader in the room.

2. Ben igniting his light sabre is a bad thing? More like a nitpick. It didn;t change the way the audience would see the character. Han shooting first was a part of his story arch.

3. The CGI dinosaurs are far better than the werewolf mask in the Cantina scene (in ANH:R it is in the background, but still not very noticeable) 

4. So what the Tarkin shot was removed?? We still know he was blown the fuck up.

All your reasons seem to be based on your personal connection with the OUT. Which is understandable. 

ESB:R will have a 720p MKV which doesn't differ a lot if any from a 1080p MKV. Also ANH:R HD will be released after ROTJ:R

Harmy said:

1. I disagree - the droid adds to the menace and makes for a great visual.

2. It's more or less the same principle as with Han shooting first but in reverse, because Ben isn't supposed to be an unscrupulous scoundrel, he's supposed to be a wise Jedi master - in the original, Vader comes in with his saber already ignited, whereas in ANH:R, Vader ignites his sabre in reaction to Ben igniting it first, so Ben make the first gesture of aggression (and with Ben's character that's just wrong).

3. I disagree very strongly - the dinos are obvious CGI, whereas the Wolfman is just that, a Wolfman, real existing object.

4. Yes, we know Tarkin was blown up but you don't seem to understand, that editing isn't just about conveying the information clearly and in the right order - seeing Tarkin's face just before the explosion offers emotional pay-off to the viewer.

Yes, ESB:R will be 720p, but sourced from the shitty 2004 transfer - so I'll say it again: with a proper restoration, the OOT of course has the potential to be of much higher picture and audio quality than the current Blu-Rays (and by extention anything that uses them as a source, including the future Revisited projects, as well as my Despecialized Editions of course, which is a big part of the reason I would welcome an official restoration and don't consider the DeEd an adequate replacement of it either).

But either way, you somehow keep missing the point - all these things you responded to were the minor additional points in my post - the main point was here:

the OOT has great, oscar-winning visual effects, which, unlike modern CGI, have great historical value, so they are more fun to watch - for me anyway, so for me personally, the movie loses like half of its entertainment value just by having the original effects replaced by mundane CGI, but I already said that before. And of course, if you just watch it for the story, this argument gets weaker and some people would say that the CGI effect are more realistic and therfore better, but film-making is an art-form and in art, the technique used is just as important as the content - like, take an oil painting of a horse and a color photograph of a horse - they both show a horse and the photograph shows the horse more realistically, but does that mean, that the photo is better art?

And you completely ignored it.

1. Why would it be that in a galaxy which has technology light years ahead of us the use of a standard needle hooked up to an advanced droid?

2. Ben was a liar. All the nobility you are referring to was destroyed in ESB. Plus Ben doesn't have a story arch in the OT (nor really in the PT >_>) so its not a big deal. Would I prefer to have Vader ignite his lightsabre first? Of course seeing as how he's the villain, but it matters little. Plus how it was done in the OUT is fucking retarded. They spend a few minutes looking for each other and then they magically find each other and Vader has his lightsabre whipped out. That makes no fucking sense. 

3. I prefer practical effects over CGI any day, but the wolfman looks too farfetched.  If I had to pick one to remove I would remove the wolfman, but as far as I'm concerned both of those can be removed for all I care.

4. Seeing a shot of him for half a second before he blows up adds NOTHING to the story. The "Evacuate? In our moment of triumph? I think you overestimate their chances." line is quite sufficient.

5. No I haven't. I am a strong advocate of practical effects, but doesn't Ady use practical effects? Just re watch his version of The Battle Of Yavin. I know he will be doing some CG shots, but the majority of shots he's done are made practically. There are somethings practical effects can't do. Well I suppose we have to wait for the Sequel Trilogy to make that judgement. Also, I am not denouncing the OUT's effects for what they WERE, but its been 37 years since STAR WARS came out and what's mind blowing doesn't hold up ENTIRELY today. I know what ILM had to go through to give use these amazing effects, but updating is never a bad thing. 

Lord Haseo said:

...Plus how it was done in the OUT is fucking retarded. They spend a few minutes looking for each other and then they magically find each other and Vader has his lightsabre whipped out. That makes no fucking sense... 

 It makes no sense to you that Darth Vader found Obi-Wan by waiting near the getaway ship? Even if Darth Vader knew Obi-Wan had no plans to escape himself, surely it's not unreasonable to expect that he may try to help the others escape. Sure enough, Obi-Wan is walking down the final corridor that leads to the Millennium Falcon, and there's Darth Vader standing in his way. 

Lord Haseo said:

...I know what ILM had to go through to give use these amazing effects, but updating is never a bad thing. 

Well, without an updated version of the original films, it complicates efforts to update various fanedits. 

Lord Haseo said:

lovelikewinter said:

I agree with Tyrphanax 100%.  I just want the movies I saw as a kid.  The one that made me beg my parents to dig my brother's old action figures out of the closet and let me have my own adventures.  Had I been a little older, I would have begged my parents for a laserdisc player to see them in better quality than the old releases that sat on the shelves of my local mom and pop video store.

If Lucas would have just given us a choice, then most of the hard feelings would have gone away.  He didn't for whatever reason.  But now we have the chance to have a high quality release of the OOT.  Something I though would never happen unless Lucas was dead.  

Adywan's Star Wars is a nice variant, but not the Star Wars I and many more will look at the definitive version 20, 30, 100 years down the line.

 I want the OUT on BluRay just as much as anyone of you. But let's not let nostalgia delude us. .. Just by that alone SW:R is superior regardless of popular opinion.

"let us not be deluded" "regardless of popular opinion" "empirically" "objectively"

The way you talk, I get this picture of a little kid with his dad's coffee mug playing 'teacher.'

It's cute.

For the sake of all that's fuck.  The theatrical release of Star Wars '77 is, if nothing else, a historical work and should be preserved based on that basis alone.  To come to a forum at originalTrilogy.com and suggest that there needs to be any justification beyond that is trolling.

He didn't suggest that though. He only said that ANH:R was better than the original, but explicitly stated that he was all for an OUT release.

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

DuracellEnergizer said:

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

It can only mean one thing: invasion.

When the OOT is restored/remastered I suspect the SE will get a fresh treatment as well (if it hasn't already by that point) and the lowry master will be retired. That way, no matter how good the OOT looks, the SE will look just as good if not better.

SilverWook said:

I would hope they toss the Lowry masters in front of a steamroller, and put the video of it's destruction on youtube. ;)

I believe in the preservation of all masters, no matter how bad they are.

You guys know what are the problems of the original cuts? NONE.

I have seen the movies, I don't know, maybe 20 times before the 97SE was created? And I have never ever noticed an error. Simply because I WAS ENJOYING THE F***ING MOVIES AS EVERYBODY ELSE. Only AFTER I found sites like this and I read about the errors and mistakes, I noticed them . And do I care? No, I don't.  Yes, there are editorial mistakes, yes, there are some low quality special effects (especially in Jedi, I don't remember any "bad" effects in the first movie), yes, there are some garbage mattes, yes, there are colour imbalances, I know that. Do I care? NO.I simply LOVE the movies. And I'm pissed that Lucas instead of fixing these mistakes he created new ones and new continuity errors, that's why I prefer the originals.

Ady's versions are great and fun to watch, but what the hell are they doing in this discussion? This is about the ORIGINAL CUTS released officially, comparing them to an unofficial fan edit is absolutely POINTLESS.