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What Went Wrong/What Can Be Avoided Thread — Page 5

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darklordoftech said:


Jedi stupidity. Thinking the Sith are extinct when the Sith have faked extinction before is absolutely nonsensical.


Oh, aye? What film was that in, then?

That's some bad hat, Harry
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Easterhay said:

adywan said:



...the Prequels almost universally hated by SW fans...



I call "bullshit" on that.

Unless, of course, you've got some sort of worldwide survey of Star Wars fans to present to the forum (and I mean Star Wars fans, not simply your ten favourite internet-hoggers) in which case I'd happily look at your evidence with an open mind. If you've the time, of course (that is, when you're not editing extra snowspeeder pilots into The Empire Strikes Back to make it a better movie).

 Do you think you can make your point without adding irrelevant and rude bullshit?

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What, and not copy every post that you make, you mean? Well, I'll try but I can't make any promises.

That's some bad hat, Harry
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Easterhay said:

darklordoftech said:


Jedi stupidity. Thinking the Sith are extinct when the Sith have faked extinction before is absolutely nonsensical.



Oh, aye? What film was that in, then?

 If you're pointing out that the Sith hadn't faked extinction before, I guess you're right. That would be the fault of the EU.

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Is it just me, or do lightsaber blades look "off" in AOTC and ROTS?

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darklordoftech said:

Is it just me, or do lightsaber blades look "off" in AOTC and ROTS?

I think the blue lightsabers are a different shade of blue from the ones in the OT and TPM, but it's been years since I saw either movie so I'm not certain. 

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DuracellEnergizer said: the blue lightsabers are a different shade of blue from the ones in the OT and TPM

It's not that.

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1.  There was no Han Solo-type (everyman) character.  Everyone was way too uptight and it showed.

2.  Anakin was extremely unlikable.  The Clone Wars' biggest surprise was how they made him actually a heroic guy.  They played up his pilot skills and I can see why Ben called him a cunning warrior. 

3.  The decision to go away from 35mm to digital.  Digital will never have the great feel of film.

4.  Lucas at that point had surrounded himself with yes men and he had no one to tell him some ideas were crap.  It was less a collaborative effort.  Plus I think his brain had gone to mush as a result of spending 15 years raising kids.

5.  George Lucas should never try to write love scenes.  He doesn't strike me as the romantic guy.  

6.  Turning the Jedi into monks instead of samurai.  

It seems like people are really embracing the new characters. In fact, the big question people ask me now about Star Wars is, “Are Finn and Poe gay lovers?” And really how the f*ck would I know? My second husband left me for a man, so my gaydar isn’t exactly what you’d call Death Star level quality. ----Carrie Fisher

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The Jedi weren't monks in the PT they were corporate middle managers.They have a rigid career based ranking system. They spend all day in board meetings.They haven't a clue what's going on and are about as much use as a chocolate dildo.

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I wonder how and where Jedi in PT get their funds. I mean they have this huge building in the most prestigious part of Coruscant, they wear fancy robes, fly fancy ships and spend all day doing nothing.

真実

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Tax... No wonder the first film is about taxation.

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Easterhay said:

What, and not copy every post that you make, you mean?

 I've made over 31,000 posts.  Of those, I count 129 on-topic posts and 247 polite posts.  And 32 of those posts were both!  So do your math next time.

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imperialscum said:

I wonder how and where Jedi in PT get their funds. I mean they have this huge building in the most prestigious part of Coruscant, they wear fancy robes, fly fancy ships and spend all day doing nothing.

Embezzlement and blackmail. When they're not stealing children from the destitute, they're wringing money from rich fat cats with skeletons in their closets. 

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lovelikewinter said:

Turning the Jedi into monks instead of samurai.  

 I'd be totally down with Jedi who were monks AND samurai. There were plenty of badass samurai Zen monks.

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And the Samurai were actually bureaucrats during the 18th and 19th centuries; maybe Lucas was being accurate in that sense.

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There's nothing wrong with making the Jedi monks. The problem lies with making them dogmatic, baby-snatching cultists.

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Lucas tried to make the Jedi into Samurai, but just made them uninteresting.

The Clone Wars cartoons (the 2003 one slightly more) did a good job of trying to make them more honorable and chivalrous than in the films, while still making them human.

Had that been stressed more, the main problems with them in the PT might be cleared up slightly.

I’m just here because I’m driving tonight.

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And I'd even take making the Jedi dogmatic, baby-snatching cultists if that had actually been on purpose. If they were portrayed as decadent hypocrites who had been suckling on the Senate's teat for centuries, growing fat and indolent and becoming completely impotent, while simultaneously having all of their transgressions sanctioned by the Senate because having the Jedi in their pocket was convenient, then it would have introduced some much-needed moral conflict, and might explain why the Dark Side is tempting ('We're honest about being evil, at least').

But Lucas has a very poor idea of what makes for interesting drama, so we have Jedi who are extremely morally questionable on accident, with a PT full of Broken and Lost Aesops being written by a guy who is a terrible writer.

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DuracellEnergizer said:

There's nothing wrong with making the Jedi monks. The problem lies with making them dogmatic, baby-snatching cultists.

The KOTOR, SWTOR, DNT, LOTF, FOTJ, and Legacy Jedi are also dogmatic, baby-snatching cultists.

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lovelikewinter said:


1.  There was no Han Solo-type (everyman) character.  Everyone was way too uptight and it showed.

2.  Anakin was extremely unlikable.  The Clone Wars' biggest surprise was how they made him actually a heroic guy.  They played up his pilot skills and I can see why Ben called him a cunning warrior. 

3.  The decision to go away from 35mm to digital.  Digital will never have the great feel of film.

4.  Lucas at that point had surrounded himself with yes men and he had no one to tell him some ideas were crap.  It was less a collaborative effort.  Plus I think his brain had gone to mush as a result of spending 15 years raising kids.

5.  George Lucas should never try to write love scenes.  He doesn't strike me as the romantic guy.  

6.  Turning the Jedi into monks instead of samurai.  


1. Yup, spot on.

2. Lots of people are unlikeable. Who said Anakin had to be likeable? Indeed, it's more believable to have a flawed character fall from grace than someone who is purer than pure.

3. Disagree.

4. Ah, the "yes men" cliche. Been repeated too many times, now; no point in answering it. Fifteen years of raising kids makes your brain mush? Au contrare.

5. You'd have to ask his wife. Going back your previous comment, though, I'm guessing you don't have kids. And yet you call out the father of three as not being romantic?

6. Made perfect sense to me.

That's some bad hat, Harry
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Easterhay said:



2. Lots of people are unlikeable. Who said Anakin had to be likeable? Indeed, it's more believable to have a flawed character fall from grace than someone who is purer than pure.


 Likeable & flawed & eventually evil can be part of a character, as that is where Lucas missed the boat with Anakin.  You have to have the audience atleast care for the characters, or they are not going to give a shit about him when he goes bad. 

You look at any Mob Movie, and all the characters are evil and do awful things, but there is a charm about them that the audience gravitates to.  Goodfellas is a perfect example where I like the main characters (Robert Deniro, Ray Liotta, and Joe Pesci), but they are essentially all bad people, who do bad things, and eventually pay for their sins at the end of the movie the same way Anakin did.  Tony Soprano is another example of a person that is a flawed person, that does horrible things, yet the audience deep down likes him, and that is why you come back to watch the Soprano's each week for 6 seasons.

Lucas never made Anakin likeable in Episode 2 when he was played by Hayden Christenson.  He didn't do anything bad until the Tusken slaughter, so he still had a good chunk of the movie for people to care about him.  Many would argue Anakin should have been the same actor for 3 movies, so the audience could get to know him even more, but thats another argument.

The bottom line is that no matter whether a character is portrayed on screen as a good guy or bad guy, if the audience doesn't care about them, then why should we care about his ultimate demise? 

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Well, obviously that's where we differ; I do care about Anakin in the prequels so this is where we'll have to agree to disagree.

That's some bad hat, Harry
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Easterhay said:

Well, obviously that's where we differ; I do care about Anakin in the prequels so this is where we'll have to agree to disagree.

 That's fair.  But you have to understand that people who didn't like the PT for this reason alone, is a HUGE reason why.